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Boiler Insulation

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Evening all. Recently bought a Silvia and Rocky combo, so far so good. One thing I've read in my (exhaustive) research before buying was boiler and group head insulation. I tend to leave it on all day as I often work from home. I know you can buy the kit from PIDSilvia but it's pricey and was wondering if anyone else has done the mod themselves and has found a better value alternative. I've already ebay'd and googled but so far it's either not quite right, too expensive or they want to sell you enough to carpet your house !

 

Any pointers would be gratefully received

 

Cheers


Rocket Giotto Evo 2, Zenith 65e

 

I know what the problem is now.... it's me !

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Hi, sorry I cannot help with your specific question, however your posting is making me wonder about the usefulness of boiler insulation.

I thought PIDSilvia were selling the insulation to protect the internally mounted PID and no other specific reason.

My limited experience and observations tell me that the main reason for temperature instability during a shot is due to the temperature of the water entering the boiler and insulation would not help with that. Or would it?

Why do you think insulation would help?

Edited by Wando64

Rancilio Silvia V3 with Auber PID, Eureka Mignon.

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I wasn't aware that PIDSilvia were selling the insulation kit to protect the internal PID, that is new info to me but it does make sense I guess. I totally accept your point about temp fluctuation, insulation may help, it may not, however for me it's more an energy wastage issue. As I mentioned, I often have the machine on all day so insulation will hopefully stop the boiler having to kick in as often, thus saving me money on elec bills. The main reason I am after a more cost effective solution to the PIDSilvia kit is that, at anywhere between $30-50 plus shipping it will take a loooong time to recover that cost based on the potential energy savings, probably many years.

 

Since posting this I have found a few more articles (including on this forum) around insulation, types, projects that people have done etc. so have some ideas but please people, if you have some experience or info that you can share it will be gratefully received.

 

Thanks all :)


Rocket Giotto Evo 2, Zenith 65e

 

I know what the problem is now.... it's me !

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I don't know if this may be of interest but model engineers insulate steam boilers with ceramic boiler lagging, which is very good at retaining heat, it comes in 1mm or 3mm thickness sheet, you may be able to make a cardboard template to fit your boiler, and then make up your insulation as required, try http://www.chronos.ltd.uk for supplies

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I've been happy with a cheap ironing board underlay from Minky for the past two years. This allows me to operate with the back of the machine off.

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All of this makes me think whether I should consider insulating my boiler. Can anyone report on any benefit they have obtained by doing this?


Rancilio Silvia V3 with Auber PID, Eureka Mignon.

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I haven't insulated it yet, but I noticed that the temperature stability is not good at all when the silvia is running without casing, so i guess with insulation, it represents a noticeable improvement.

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Sorry if this is a stupid question but why would you use the Silvia without a casing?

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I had a late night espresso yesterday and started googling about Silvia boiler insulation, there are OEM insulation sheets from the v5 available on ebay, but I could only find US based sellers and the cost with postage was more than 60 USD, so not really worth it IMO. This morning I went to the shop and bought a silicone baking sheet, measured the boiler, cut and placed two layers around it, secured with a cable tie, the silicone is rated to 230 °C so should easily cope with the 140 °C max. when steaming with the PID. The cost was less than 7 euro. :p

Wonder how long will this last and how will the PID cope with it. The top of the boiler is not insulated to provide heat for the cup tray.

K52S3571.jpg

K52S3574.jpg

Edited by Stanic

The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, MaraXprofitec, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Niche Zero, Aergrind, IMS and VST baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, modded Gene Cafe CBR 101, BWT Bestmax PREMIUM V

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So far so good, had her on for 16 hours yesterday, monitoring the temperature graph in the meBarista app and it definitely decreases the drop in temperature when pulling a shot, before it would drop from the set 105 Celsius to 96-97, now it drops to 101-102 Celsius. I've added a single layer top cover to the boiler today, sitting there just lightly. I didn't change the PID parameters but I had to lower the so-called Pro active percentage (with how much power will the heating element kick-in after pressing the brew button), from 36% to 30%, because it was overshooting the set temperature.


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, MaraXprofitec, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Niche Zero, Aergrind, IMS and VST baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, modded Gene Cafe CBR 101, BWT Bestmax PREMIUM V

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I recommend running your machnine with the casing off...if you want to successfully electrocute yourself to win the Darwin Award.

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Hey folks. I think I’m going to attempt a DIY insulation job on my 2015 to see if there’s any improvement in energy efficiency. I’ve found what I’m sure is the closest thing to what the kits are made of at a fraction of the price here https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F230688253972 The American kit uses 1/4 inch thickness which would equate to the 6mm here. Just wondering if anyone who had the kit or had made a successful DIY could scan the shape for other folks to use as a template?

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Hey folks. I’ve bought the foam and was about to install it then I read this http://www.pidsilvia.com/insulation.htm

it says that insulation should only be fitted on a Silvia with a PID. I’ve just got a standard 2015 model. Can’t imagine insulation would damage anything but wonder if adding insulation will negatively affect the brewing temperature. Anyone got any thoughts?

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8B687A28-C6CD-4070-ADDA-7D982E602E47.jpg

Decided to go ahead and do it anyway. Clad the boiler with 6mm silicone foam with two layers on top. I’ve been using 0.12 KWh per coffee with a 20-30 minute warm up. I’ll report back if this makes any difference.

9CC3DB03-979C-43A2-845A-1B9767F46C4F.jpg

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it says that insulation should only be fitted on a Silvia with a PID.

 

As far as I know Silvia v5(ECO) has insulation without having PID, and there are probably many others.

 

BR


CFBG Team

Buying expensive equipment won't make you barista!

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Hey folks. I’ve bought the foam and was about to install it then I read this http://www.pidsilvia.com/insulation.htm

it says that insulation should only be fitted on a Silvia with a PID. I’ve just got a standard 2015 model. Can’t imagine insulation would damage anything but wonder if adding insulation will negatively affect the brewing temperature. Anyone got any thoughts?

My guess is it relates to points 9 & 10 on the linky you posted.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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so, can anyone confirm if the insulation has any influence on the coffe taste etc?

talking about PID machine where the controller is outside from the body.

thanks

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So I'm a month in after installing the insulation and I can confirm in terms of energy consumption, we are talking fairly minimal savings on electricity. On average I was using 6.94kwh per month without insulation and am now using 5.33kwh per month with it installed. That being said I tend to only make more than one coffee at the weekend. If it was being used multiple times daily I think the savings would be more apparent. Only observation but the boiler seems to achieve heat between shots quicker than it used to but again, purely observational. Am I glad I did it? Yes, it was fun. Will it save the planet? Maybe one baby dolphin will be saved at best over the course of the machine's lifespan. Rough calculations indicate that the insulation that cost £6 will take two years to see a return on investment!

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On 19/08/2018 at 07:49, DRAXXMENVONE said:

Hey folks. I think I’m going to attempt a DIY insulation job on my 2015 to see if there’s any improvement in energy efficiency. I’ve found what I’m sure is the closest thing to what the kits are made of at a fraction of the price here https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F230688253972 The American kit uses 1/4 inch thickness which would equate to the 6mm here. Just wondering if anyone who had the kit or had made a successful DIY could scan the shape for other folks to use as a template?

Hi! Can you insulate with one a4 sheet, or did it need more? And did you find a template or improvise? Any advice appreciated. All the best

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Hi! Can you insulate with one a4 sheet, or did it need more? And did you find a template or improvise? Any advice appreciated. All the best

Oh dear. This was years ago! I think it was one A4. There was a photo of an existing kit online somewhere that I scaled up and cut but to be honest you could just as easily make a new template using cardboard. Don’t use paper, you need the thickness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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