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Turbo shots on Mara X?


woodbar
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Have been reading up a bit on so called Turbo shots - eg. 15g in, 40g out, <15 secs @ 6 bar - and thought I might try it on the Mara X.

So I thought I would ask Lelit support if the specification of the OPV would allow it to be set at, and work at, 6 bar?

Their reply:

Please be informed that the machine is supplied with the factory set OPV. If you want to adjust it, we kindly ask you to hear your reseller's opinion as he is in charge for the warranty. We remain at your complete disposal

Which is a bit laughable - yes, it was "factory set" - to around 11 bar so I have already had to adjust it to a more sensible value!  They did reply promptly but that is quite easy to do with a "standard" zero information response of course!

So I just wondered if anyone has any thoughts or actually tried it?  The long PI on the Mara X might not be suitable anyway?

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I'd have thought the slightly slower ramp up would help with this type of this...I assumed the whole point of 6 bar was to prevent the puck being compressed and essentially allow a higher flow rate so you can grind finer at 6bar than 9bar? 

 

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Yes, I take your point about less compression at 6 bar but you are also looking for a higher flow rate so the general consensus seems to be you would need a coarser grind than normal?

Lelit responded to my further query with "tech. dept. suggest you could down to 8 bar" - they won't actually answer the question about the actual specification of the OPV.

I might just try it - it would just be nice to know whether I am likely to reach 6 bar before I reach the end of the thread on the OPV!

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13 hours ago, woodbar said:

Yes, I take your point about less compression at 6 bar but you are also looking for a higher flow rate so the general consensus seems to be you would need a coarser grind than normal?

Lelit responded to my further query with "tech. dept. suggest you could down to 8 bar" - they won't actually answer the question about the actual specification of the OPV.

I might just try it - it would just be nice to know whether I am likely to reach 6 bar before I reach the end of the thread on the OPV!

Not necessarily. If there's less compression you should get a higher flow rate. I'm not sure how the opv fits into things re flow rate. I want to say you'll get a higher flow rate to the group but maybe it'll just be the return to the tank that changes.

If you're pulling at a lower pressure and coarser grind are you not just getting a lower EY unless you go for a significantly longer ratio like 1:5?

 

 

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Yes, there are lots of variables so can be quite difficult to predict the outcome.

I think it was found that, contrary to popular theory, they were getting a higher EY using the lower pressure, shorter time with up to 1:3 ratio or thereabouts which presumably would require a high-ish flow rate.

How that would marry with the MaraX which I understand has a low flow rate and extended PI I am not sure?

I think I had better invest in one of the flow control devices rather than just fiddle with the OPV again!

Trouble is I am not sure which type works best with the MaraX - the Lelit Bianca version (with the wooden paddle I am not keen on as it would look odd with the other black knobs and is expensive) or the cheaper Coffee Sensor version (which has black knob(s) but seems out of stock at the mo)?  The deciding factor would be which provides the smoothest, most accurate and repeatable control?  It does seem the Lelit version is very expensive as it really only includes a new restrictor and needle assembly whereas the other version contains the whole "mushroom" assembly!

I might start another thread with just that question.

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2 hours ago, woodbar said:

Yes, there are lots of variables so can be quite difficult to predict the outcome.

I think it was found that, contrary to popular theory, they were getting a higher EY using the lower pressure, shorter time with up to 1:3 ratio or thereabouts which presumably would require a high-ish flow rate.

How that would marry with the MaraX which I understand has a low flow rate and extended PI I am not sure?

I think I had better invest in one of the flow control devices rather than just fiddle with the OPV again!

Trouble is I am not sure which type works best with the MaraX - the Lelit Bianca version (with the wooden paddle I am not keen on as it would look odd with the other black knobs and is expensive) or the cheaper Coffee Sensor version (which has black knob(s) but seems out of stock at the mo)?  The deciding factor would be which provides the smoothest, most accurate and repeatable control?  It does seem the Lelit version is very expensive as it really only includes a new restrictor and needle assembly whereas the other version contains the whole "mushroom" assembly!

I might start another thread with just that question.

With a coarser grind? You can get a higher flow rate and lower pressure with a very long pre-infusion or bloom phase using the same grind size you'd use for an ordinary shot and normal conditions.

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As @Rob1 suggests, have you tried aiming for this purely using grind size? You probably won't be able to maintain a perfect 6 bar throughout the entire shot without some flow control, due to changes in the puck, but I had success aiming for 5-6 bar, purely by adjusting the grind. It's worth a go with a stock Mara X.

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3 hours ago, Rob1 said:

With a coarser grind? You can get a higher flow rate and lower pressure with a very long pre-infusion or bloom phase using the same grind size you'd use for an ordinary shot and normal conditions.

Well that is the thing - it would be good to be able to try different recipes and and profiles so it seems I definitely need a flow control device on the MaraX - there I have convinced myself to "invest" even more money!

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