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Lucca Atom 75


SteveL
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Hi grinder folks,

I couldn't find any mention of this new grinder in the forum search so I thought I would post a heads up.

It's a modification of an Atom 75 developed by Clive Coffee for their Lucca brand in collab with Eureka:
https://luccaespresso.com/products/lucca-atom-75-espresso-grinder-by-eureka

At first reading the main mods seem to be a re-worked UI and burr positioning system. There is a marketing video and more technical setup video on the Clive Coffee site.

For me the most interesting thing was the burr positioning which measures the angle of the lever to calculate where the bottom burr is set. By knowing and displaying the position it ought to solve, or at least greatly alleviate, the issue of moving between brew methods for the Atom's 'multiple revolution' dial. There is a thread on HB started by Clive that has a couple of pieces of interesting information. First the patent (US20210219782A1) for the positioning system if you want to know how it works. Secondly that Eureka will be selling the grinder under their ORO brand in Europe. Also that they are working with Eureka to bring the tech to other grinders.

Here is the HB thread:
https://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/lucca-atom-75-questions-answers-t75391.html

As someone who has been slowly considering getting back into home espresso and was looking at the Eureka Atom 75 this is interesting news. Touch screens and TrueGrind I am somewhat ambivalent about for various reasons. Mostly to do with longevity if I was spending that kind of money. However the prospect of a burr position readout in some form to future Eureka grinders seems like a solid improvement.

 

Edited by SteveL
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But if you move between brew methods, or, as a home users, only use once or twice a day, surely retention and wastage haven't gone away? The grinder can dial itself in, but how does it cope with ground coffee on the chute path? I take one still needs to purge 4g-5g? 

My understanding is that this isn't a single dose grinder. 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I started to write something on classification, on what is or isn't a single dose grinder, but its ultimately a personal thing whether performance meets personal criteria.

I have not seen anything from Clive that suggests that its retention or exchange figures are very close to your Niche, which is perhaps more your point when you mention single dose grinders and is fair enough.

From what I have read the Eureka Atom 75 is considered good to excellent for a large conventional flat burr grinder and needs something like a circa 2g purge. As Clive had talked about using the Eureka 75 for single dose and its low retention I guess they might have taken the opportunity to see if they could improve it further in engineering the Lucca variant. I would assume evolution rather than revolution though as the basic engineering versus something like the Niche presumably remains the same.

For me the stand out enhancement was the burr positioning indicator and the possibility it may find itself on future Eureka models. ORO Single Doser v2 for example.

For me the Atom 75 is a possible fit as I do not switch beans a lot and can live with a small purge. I am in the middle of nowhere with no good roaster nearby as far as I am aware. So for me it’s a bag at a time, currently on subscription. If I do get back into home espresso I would for sure also consider the Niche, Solo and other Eureka grinders. I like products engineered to last but as DaveC said in a recent reply a lot of things going on at the moment.

 

 

Edited by SteveL
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It might be that I'm missing the obvious. But... What's the appeal over a box standard Atom 75? I can see it tells you exactly the positioning of the burrs, but, you still need to adjust the burrs via the adjustment mechanism, in the same way as you'd do with the standard Atom 75? 

They say the grinder remains dialled in? Are they saying it kinda adjusts itself based on other factors such as temperature, humidity and bean age? 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Quote

We studied what is and isn’t important when it comes to grinding. There is a lot of misinformation out there about what affects a grind. So we started with a thousand variables that we think could matter, and we ended up with 5 that actually do.

I tried to work out what the 5 things were, so important they mattered,I would have thought it would be bulleted:

Quote

The answer is yes. The LUCCA Atom 75, with our patent-pending TrueGrind system — which ensures the grinder stays dialed in —  is an industry first. It comes with digitally displayed burr positioning, 100 of your favorite coffees dialed in with recipes, a touchscreen display, a connected app to browse or create your own recipes, as well as the same impressive speed and performance of the Eureka Atom 75.  Perfect recipes, perfect shots from the second you open a bag.

From the quotes I got:

1. True grind system - an industry first

@MediumRoastSteamput it well, what is this grinder going to do, automatically adjust itself...because I see the same grind adjustment knob that moves the same motor and spindle up and down. Does a hand come out the back and adjust it as beans age...or perhaps it observes your espresso shot via a camera and tells you to adjust it, pure marketing nonsense. I see from the patent that there is a stepper motor, temp and humidity sensors, whether it's implemented in the production grinder and how is unclear. Lets assume it is all there...it's still not going to work unless aging, storage conditions etc.. are able to be covered automatically. Sometimes there is no substitute for the good old mark 1 human brane. Pluse if all this stuff is there internally...it's a hell of a lot just waiting to go wrong and it won't be cheap to repair.

2. Digitally displayed burr positioning

Ooohh..so what a grinder like the solo can be adjusted consistently down to 7 microns or less (human blood cell size). This is just something more to go wrong. Admittedly on the Eurekas, the knob goes round and round (and up the bloody tree)...so digital overcomes a slight weakness in that area, but adds nothing special beyond that.

3. 100 slots for grind settings of your favourite coffees

This is completely meaningless, I am lost for words. Whenever you order a coffee, it needs dialling in..period. A coffee you loved one year e.g. Bonga Bonga, may be entirely different when using next year's crop, or even the same years crop roasted to a slightly different profile. Even with the 20 years I have been involved in high-end coffee. This is the most useful thing I could come up with. and applies to any grinder. This is using technology for the sake of it and marketing...it adds no real value.

image.png.d735280604aac7e96376cab0a353b41d.png

4. Touchscreen display

Enough of those failing on various makes of grinders that I am not sure that I see touchscreens as a benefit.

5. Connected app to browse or create your own recipes (grind profiles from the roasters?)

What...grind profiles from the roasters. How do roasters they know the preinfusion, pressure, machine type, profile, portafilter size and basket you are using. Just nonsense. Recipes...<lol>, what are you going to do, share them with people who, if, they have the same machine, basket, portafilter basket, coffee, opened at the same time as you, used at the same rate, humidity temperature and machine pressure or profile as you...will find super handy. Or is it to save those important grind recipes because the skill to keep a grinder dialled in has been lost.

 

If the grinder costs not a penny more, then great, you have more to go wrong and some unuseful features you didn't need or ask for, but at least you have not paid for them. Eureka have solved problems that don't really exist for a home grinder (and probably a commercial use one as well). Apart from that, the one thing I have learnt over the years is a grinder is best if it is kept simple, especially around the electronics. Here are my 6 things that matter most for a home grinder (funny enough, none of those things are on their list).

  1. Good Burrs
  2. Slowest rotational speed that allow the burrs to work correctly
  3. Simple electronics
  4. Nice, simple and clear adjustment system
  5. Easy to open and clean
  6. Low retention, able to single dose
Edited by DavecUK
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CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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@DavecUK - Dave, Thank you for taking the trouble and time to put my query into some meaningful, clear and well explained. 

I keep looking at that grinder and trying to read between the lines. To me, in simple words, guizmo nonsense. 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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On 15/09/2021 at 14:35, MediumRoastSteam said:

It might be that I'm missing the obvious. But... What's the appeal over a box standard Atom 75? I can see it tells you exactly the positioning of the burrs, but, you still need to adjust the burrs via the adjustment mechanism, in the same way as you'd do with the standard Atom 75? 

They say the grinder remains dialled in? Are they saying it kinda adjusts itself based on other factors such as temperature, humidity and bean age? 

I'm not sure whether you mean me specifically or generally? To me personally very little. I would pick the Eureka for the engineering simplicity and longevity for that kind of money. So in the same way if Eureka did do some kind of v2 of their Atom 75 I would hope for some minor evolution like perhaps an updated output path if they did work on reducing retention/exchange and the position readout if they could engineer it robustly else I could live without. Without the touch screen and phone app stuff. I just see the position readout as a nice to have for the issue of the Eureka adjustment doing multiple turns for possible comparison purposes. Obviously for actual dialling in its relative movements so I don't see that as a biggie. If I was looking to buy now and the existing Eureka fit the bill I would buy it without complaint.

I don't know how Clive think the Lucca stays dialled in. I hadn't found the time to take a glance at the patent. From the introduction video I got the sense that Clive were aiming TrueGrind at a technical mid-market 'good enough' solution for people who don't want to learn about dialling in or to get them started. I recall something about subscription coffee so I guess that is the other connection from Clive's perspective. I don't think I am their target audience which is fine. From Dave's reply the system faces a strong head wind.

Edited by SteveL
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@DavecUK Thanks for taking the time Dave. Very interesting to hear your thoughts.

I am still finding my way with the forum platform and efficiently breaking down a quote into a series of one or two lines to reply too 🤔 . So excuse the missing quotes below.

Anyway I agree completely on the simplicity. As an embedded software engineer I would be worried about how much of it would be still working down the line. If I was a Google engineer and loaded then maybe I would not need to worry. I realise that grinders have moved on but I don't even know how old my Rocky is, must be 15+ years and it still motors on as it will happily do another.

Yes, I saw the position readout just as a solution to a grinder that did multiple turns of the burr adjuster like Eureka.

That reminds me of one question I had. I recall reading that one or two of the grinders with large adjusters that do a single revolution did not have enough of an adjustment range for espresso. The Fiorenzato AllGround may have been one but I would need to check. What is the Niche and Solo doing right in that regard? Obviously stepped vs stepless would be a factor. Is it just getting the right pitch in the adjustment collar thread? Seems strange that some would get it wrong.

Sorry I got a little confused by your sentences in point 3. Was the table from your good self or that patent/Clive?

 

Edited by SteveL
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Can I ask a question? Does this Clive, sell these grinders? If so, are we splitting the atom again.A quick read and this:

In 2018, Clive Coffee was struggling to figure out how to make it as quick and easy for our consumers to become great baristas. All roads led back to the grinder. (what about age of coffee, shot preparation, tamping force, distribution, the ability of the owner)

Followed by this:

Most modern grinders are tough to dial in, and frankly, keep dialed in. So, we decided to dial in all the grinders we sold to one of our favorite roasts, the Verve Bronson.

Followed by this:

But it still wasn’t enough.......It comes with digitally displayed burr positioning, 100 of your favorite coffees dialed in with recipes, a touchscreen display, a connected app to browse or create your own recipes, as well as the same impressive speed and performance of the Eureka Atom 75.  Perfect recipes, perfect shots from the second you open a bag.

So, the reality is if you choose from 100 coffees within their database you are fine. But if you choose from outside their database, what happens? A millennial without an ap to tell them what colour socks to wear in the morning will never manage to cope with that scenario! Come on! What an absolute load of total tosh and nonsense! You dial in a grinder retrospectively.If the shot that you have just pulled needs adjustment then you adjust for the next one. If you have 5 coffees on the go, then you record the settings you last used so you can go back to them. If in the 24 hours since you last used this coffee it has staled ever so slightly then you pull a shot and record the new anticipated grind level. So, will this exciting grinder anticipate future grind needs or simply take you to its database findings?

Am I the only one reading this who expects Clive to come up with an even better solution for his customers needs......a B2C machine!

 

 

Edited by dfk41

It is hard to be humble when you are as great as I am Muhammed Ali February 25, 1964

 

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8 hours ago, dfk41 said:

millennial without an ap to tell them what colour socks to wear in the morning will never manage to cope with that scenario! Come on! What an absolute load of total tosh and nonsense!

I recommend you don't look into what is happening with white goods and touch/phone apps/connected 😀. Fridges with cameras and AI to track your lettuce in and out etc.

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3 minutes ago, SteveL said:

I recommend you don't look into what is happening with white goods and touch/phone apps/connected 😀. Fridges with cameras and AI to track your lettuce in and out etc.

Bill Gates predicted it all back in 1995:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Gates_book)

I remember reading it as a teenager when it came out. A lot of the things written and predicted at the time, including connected appliances and micro transactions, are reality today. 

it’s a great book, and very easy to read. 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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Think the only thing that might be useful is the bur positioning so you can dial in and swap between coffees, a database of grinds as mentioned before is useless  but being able to swap between 20g basket grind, 12g basket grind and decaf grind might actually be (sort of) useful.  Not enough to spend so much money & only if has super small retention... 

I wonder if, with a connected machine, scale and grinder you could somewhat automate dialing in though (at least when it comes to volume in:out)

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39 minutes ago, siliconslave said:

Think the only thing that might be useful is the bur positioning so you can dial in and swap between coffees, a database of grinds as mentioned before is useless  but being able to swap between 20g basket grind, 12g basket grind and decaf grind might actually be (sort of) useful.  Not enough to spend so much money & only if has super small retention... 

I wonder if, with a connected machine, scale and grinder you could somewhat automate dialing in though (at least when it comes to volume in:out)

What's sad, is they thought they had covered the 5  most important things....

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I emailed them to see if I could purchase one. Yes you can but they don’t ship to the UK. You have to buy it and then arrange your own courier. Mental!!! I am right in saying that the go fro Italy to the US? So how come it can’t come back to this side of the pond????

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41 minutes ago, st33ly said:

I emailed them to see if I could purchase one. Yes you can but they don’t ship to the UK. You have to buy it and then arrange your own courier. Mental!!! I am right in saying that the go fro Italy to the US? So how come it can’t come back to this side of the pond????

probably because no UK retailer wants to carry the grinder.

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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@st33ly - This "Lucca" brand property of Clive Coffee. It's likely Clive has a deal with the factory in Italy and they ship directly to them and only to them.

Why Clive would not want to ship to the UK? No idea. 

Also, bear in mind that the voltage of the USA is 110V. UK 240V. If you use them in the UK, your grinder will go up in smoke in the first few seconds from turning it on.

Are they selling 240/220V models? 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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