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Hoffmans £1500 espresso machines


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@P1Fanatic In a minority of two then! Thing is, we can all have an opinion on something and all be right. No one has commented yet, of the point I made......no matter what you think of Hoffman, he has a Youtube channel with the sole purpose of making money.......because thousands of others do exactly the same thing in trying to influence people to buy things they could not give 2 hoots about........that does not make them clever, or good people.........just makes the business people

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If the same applies to the other machines and theres no reason to think it wouldn't, it does a disservice to people genuinely looking for information on a machine. As an influencer, of fairly epic pro

Or the faster warmup, very quiet customised vibe pump, range of accessories.....plus a hell of a lot of other stuff. Makes you wonder how much was missed across the entire range of machines revie

I also didn't like the video. To me, it was very clear that he wanted to like some machines and dislike others. He has his own pet peeves (got angry about the buttons on the Silvia, cmon..) which he d

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52 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

He is a very good presenter indeed, a lot of talent in that area...

I don’t disagree there. Yes, great presenter. Not the best entertainer, in my opinion of course. 

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11 hours ago, Chriss29 said:

 

@burnzy I take it you're still happy with your choice?!

Yes really happy so far! I wouldn't have bought one based on Hoffman’s review, i read Daves review and was more than happy to drop the cash on it. 
 

:) 

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If you look under his vid he did post an appology for the mara x 

He could of chose the Elizabeth for lelit. Much better machine, 

I suppose theres really too many at rhat price point. 

I do get the frustration with the opv setting. 

How many on here have adjusted it down to 9 bar? When its a know figure in the coffee community, why is it not factory. 

I also get his argument. He COULD adjust it but why SHOULD he have to 

He is what he is and i take most vid on YouTube/Instagram with a bit of influencer salt 🤣

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Way too early for this sh...

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Cuprajake said:

He COULD adjust it but why SHOULD he have to 

That’s where I digress. In my opinion, having the ability to adjust things with ease is a bonus. Like, with a Profitec machine I had, the pressure of the rotary pump could be adjusted by turning a screw at the bottom of the machine. No need to undo anything. Think the Expobar Brewtus and others on that line had an adjustment screw at the front of the machine, and that was with a vibe pump.

Also, pressure at the puck (e.g.: using a scace device) is different from the reading on most manometers, as he points out. But if the manometer is at the group (Lelit, minima, V Vostok) and now others when you buy the profiling kit, then it’s very close to, if not, the real deal. 

So, using a gauge on most machines, pressure is gauge is s tool to make sure things  are working and a base point to adjust things by taste - and when that’s done, it might not be the magical 9. But maybe 10 or 8. 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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14 hours ago, Burnzy said:

Anyone watched that yet?
 

Feeling a little biased towards the MaraX (as thats what i spent my money on) im wondering why he failed to discuss the brew/steam modes! The fundamental feature of what sets that machine apart from other HX machines? Bizarre 

 

In fairness he did mention in the comments that he missed that aspect of the machine. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, condy01 said:

In fairness he did mention in the comments that he missed that aspect of the machine. 

It was very clear he didn't know about the most important feature of the machine when he spoke about the variation in steam pressure as a strange thing. As an expert, not doing your homework and reviewing without knowing the fundamental facts of the subject is quite disappointing, to say the least. I learned very little, if anything, from this long video. 

He missed some of the other good and bad features (quiet pump, OPV discharge going to the drip tray, to mention two). I usually like his videos, but if this is how he reviews something I know about, it makes me wonder... 

Edited by Doram
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I was also disappointed by this 'review', but in all fairness to James Hoffmann this is hardly a surprise... a video like this will always be problematic (but will generate many clicks... and comments which are good things from a youtuber's perspective), and I'm not sure who it is for:

  • Espresso machine geeks, like the people on this forum (myself included) will always find any attempt a presenting and reviewing 5 machines in less than an hour frustrating. The machine selection isn't perfect (Including the ACS Minima and Lelit Elizabeth would have been more interesting from a technical perspective than say the Silvia Pro), and too many features are ignored or presented in an inconsistent way (what about the bundled accessories ? long term reliability and the availability of spare parts ? the choice of materials inside and on the outside ?...). Brand name and looks/feet are only a small part of what makes these machines attractive to us, and we are willing to adjust brew pressure (BTW, "9 bar" isn't the one-size-fits-all answer)
  • Curious watchers won't quite understand why one would be willing to pay £1500 for an espresso machine, and what these machines add to, say a GCP or basic Rancillio Silvia
  • Most people with the budget but not technically inclined will probably follow the advice of their local/favorite coffee machine retailer and be swayed by initial impressions/brand recognition/friend's advice/looks or ease of use. This video is almost too detailed for them (explaining what's on the market at that price and the basic feature set choices - HX box v. double boiler, traditional looking E61 v. more modern alternatives - might be more relevant to this audience).

I am also not sure that James Hoffmann's expertise includes prosumer espresso machines. He knows a thing or two about coffee, the business of coffee, and about marketing which makes him interesting to many. Even when he reviewed single prosumer machines (Sage Oracle for instance), his comments were quite superficial IMO.

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He said he would go into more comments about the Mara X drip tray “in a minute” - I wasted way too much time waiting for that and it never came! 
 

I'm guessing he was going to say he LOVED it and how it’s built like a tank! And completely blows the laughable failure of a drip tray on the Silvia Pro to pieces. 

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He's had the machines on the counter behind him for a good while now, this was a bit of a let down, I agree.

I do enjoy his videos, usually, and the grinders series was quite good, I thought, doing a video for each, and then a final comparison video, that would have been a much better format?

He pinned a comment about the Lelit a bit later, even though I would have personally liked to have seen an Elizabeth in that test, it seems to be like the MaraX is clearly the best value from that group, and not much to be gained with the Profitec, say?

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Posted (edited)

FWIW, I've always just accepted Mr Hoffman's work as entertainment/ theatre....it's a bit like thumbing through a hobby magazine you'd never bother buying. To quote B A Baracus, I pity the fools seeking sound advice and guidance

Edited by kjarsheim
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Regards the machine selection he’s unfortunately at the mercy of his patreon backers so can’t blame him for that. It is therefore misleading to give the video the name it has as so many machines have been over looked.

Oddly if you read the comments, there seems to be a lot of people who claim not even to drink coffee. Bizzare.

Despite the rather shallow video I still think he’s great for coffee. Dare I say he’s almost had a similar effect to coffee that Tiger Woods had to golf.

Directing people’s hard earned cash to the coffee industry is good for all those who work in it including the forum and its sponsors.

Does anyone follow a YouTuber who is more detailed and experienced in the prosumer market? Other than @davec of course 😀

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chriss29 said:

Despite the rather shallow video I still think he’s great for coffee. Dare I say he’s almost had a similar effect to coffee that Tiger Woods had to golf.

Directing people’s hard earned cash to the coffee industry is good for all those who work in it including the forum and its sponsors.

Does anyone follow a YouTuber who is more detailed and experienced in the prosumer market? Other than @davec of course 😀

Isn't that exactly the problem? His position in the industry means that (many) people regard what he is saying as gospel. This is why we all rushed to see this video from the guru, even though we already know something about the machine.

If it were one little slip - well, we are all human. But it just seemed that he knew absolutely nothing about the machine (I just remembered he noticed the slow ramp up to pressure on the X, and only said it was "slow" [which sounds like a negative?]. He mentioned the heat up cycle and only said it was "interesting"....)

The machine has been on the market for a while now. All the information is out there in endless discussions and videos. All he needed to do is have a quick look at @DavecUK review and he wouldn't make an idiot out of himself. I understand that he is busy, and maybe doesn't care, but come on - if you decide to make such a video and you are the Tiger Woods of coffee, isn't it fair to expect the minimum effort? With great power comes great responsibility...

Edited by Doram
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Posted (edited)

TBH, Hoffman rekindled my interest in coffee.  He is doing what he is expected to do and needs to do to sustain. He monetises his rich coffee knowledge IMHO. It’s his choice / right. Period. 

Although I watched his grinders, brewing and coffee machines reviews, I didn’t buy any of them when I did not know anything about coffee. I came  to this forum after watching a few Dave’s videos and that’s it. 

Some may buy after watching his review, which may be similar to our purchasing behaviours when we go shopping.

For those majority, they may never want to know or keen to learn beyond what they have been told. 

I can liken it to our rush to put an offer to purchase a home after an open house 😂 

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Edited by Like Medium Strong Coffee
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“Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace.” - Dalia Lama 

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9 hours ago, Eiffel said:

I was also disappointed by this 'review', but in all fairness to James Hoffmann this is hardly a surprise... a video like this will always be problematic (but will generate many clicks... and comments which are good things from a youtuber's perspective), and I'm not sure who it is for:

  • Espresso machine geeks, like the people on this forum (myself included) will always find any attempt a presenting and reviewing 5 machines in less than an hour frustrating. The machine selection isn't perfect (Including the ACS Minima and Lelit Elizabeth would have been more interesting from a technical perspective than say the Silvia Pro), and too many features are ignored or presented in an inconsistent way (what about the bundled accessories ? long term reliability and the availability of spare parts ? the choice of materials inside and on the outside ?...). Brand name and looks/feet are only a small part of what makes these machines attractive to us, and we are willing to adjust brew pressure (BTW, "9 bar" isn't the one-size-fits-all answer)
  • Curious watchers won't quite understand why one would be willing to pay £1500 for an espresso machine, and what these machines add to, say a GCP or basic Rancillio Silvia
  • Most people with the budget but not technically inclined will probably follow the advice of their local/favorite coffee machine retailer and be swayed by initial impressions/brand recognition/friend's advice/looks or ease of use. This video is almost too detailed for them (explaining what's on the market at that price and the basic feature set choices - HX box v. double boiler, traditional looking E61 v. more modern alternatives - might be more relevant to this audience).

I am also not sure that James Hoffmann's expertise includes prosumer espresso machines. He knows a thing or two about coffee, the business of coffee, and about marketing which makes him interesting to many. Even when he reviewed single prosumer machines (Sage Oracle for instance), his comments were quite superficial IMO.

Yes I agree with you, I think he's going into territory he's probably not the best person for and if he were honest, does not interest him. His "spark" was not there on this video. If people on here who have/had these machines over a long period of time and know them inside out collaborated to share their objective unbiased thoughts , you would may well have the most comprehensive  & honest review that you would ever get or need.

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I think he said the machines were picked by his patreon supporters.  I was disappointed there were essentially 3 very similar machines (E61 HX).  He didn't seem as enthusiastic as his usual videos - perhaps the 'wrong' OPV setting had wound him up?   Since there are already loads of vids with those or similar machines, i'd have liked him to review some less common machines - although he did say these were machines you could easily go and buy where ever you lived - but since you could go and see these, perhaps he could have reviewed machines that people were less likely to be aware of or able to see themselves?

I wonder how many casual Hoff-watchers would want to maintain a full E61?

One thing i do like about his vids is they are calm - no shouty stuff here.

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12 hours ago, Cuprajake said:

Ive only adjusted with the gauge on a pf 

If you used a gauge and effectively turned it onto a blind portafilter, there’s nothing to mimic coffee  might as well read the gauge if you have one, as the whole circuit would be under the same pressure (well, there are exceptions - I.e.: rotary pumps measuring at the head of the pump - but generally that’s the case). 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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