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Issues returning an item to clumsy goat - advice appreciated


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Hi

I'm having some issues with a Eureka Mignon grinder I bought from clumsy goat less than 30 days ago. They say they can't accept returns on grinders. Can anyone with experience in consumer rights confirm please? If they are correct in refusing to accept, should they return to the manufacturer or do I have to do this? @Coff Hey could you advice on the warranty aspect with Eureka please?

From the replies I've had from them, they don't think there's an issue with the grinder and that's why they won't accept but they haven't been clear in that regard. They are suggesting that retention is an issue but I'm single dosing and weighing in vs out, so know that's not the case and I have told them this. My issue is that I took the upper burr holder out to clean and since then I had to dial in 3 days in a row. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to dial in at all after cleaning as the upper burr is stationary but accepted I may have to tweak slightly but the grind was out by an entire notch (1 out of 5). Re-dialled in, next day the grind was out by a notch in the opposite direction (so back to where it was before cleaning). Fine I thought, must just be the grind setting for when there's some residue on the burrs but next morning, it was out by a notch in the other direction again. 

Three mornings of messing around dialling in and wasting coffee was where I drew the line, I boxed it up for returning and picked up a used Mazzer that was for sale 5 mins away from where I live, dialled the Mazzer in last night. Used it this morning and all is well, so no issue with the coffee, not that I thought there was.

I don't have much time to play with as 30 days is fast approaching. Appreciate any advice. 

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new burrs need to season, untill then dialing in can be irrattic, 

also there will be some retention from a fully clean grinder for the first few uses,

 

which model is it? 

long distance is 14 days iirc

Way too early for this sh...

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Thanks for the reply, didn't realise it was 14 days. You'd think distance products would have longer than locally sourced items, weird.

I put 250g of old beans through when new and then used 1kg of good coffee and to be honest, it operated perfectly through that 1 kg, so haven't experienced any issues in that regard. All the problems started after cleaning.

Since cleaning I've weighed input and output and there's been very negligible retention as I use a camera lens hood to clear after/whilst grinding. Certainly no explanation of being an entire notch out.

I've just lost all faith in the grinder to be honest, I'd happily just sell it on used but I can't do this whilst I think there's an issue with it, it just wouldn't be right. Perhaps it needs to go back to the manufacturer to confirm it's OK...

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It takes time for machines / burr's to settle down. The burr's require a several kg's of coffee through them before they are consistent.

You say it was consistent before you removed the top bur / carrier ? This suggests that replacing caused the change ?

Did you thoroughly clean the area where the carrier sits ? any tiny grounds of coffee will prevent the carrier from sitting precisely.Coffee varies day to day with temperature and humidity. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't think you have a right to return an item unless it's faulty once it has been unboxed and used. Distance selling gives you a cooling off period but I don't think you're allowed to use the goods in that time. Happy to be proven wrong though. Many retailers will accept returns just for the sake of providing good service.

From what you've described it doesn't sound like there's definitely something wrong with the grinder, but if there is it sounds as if you may have caused it somehow while cleaning, though I've no idea how you would have done this.

The mignon isn't a single dosing grinder so running it with the hopper half full is necessary to try to prove or determine faults.

Fresh roasted coffee can take a while to settle down and it can be necessary to adjust the grinder back and forth for the first 7 days or so, so it's possible it was the coffee depending on how fresh it is.

When you describe the grind as "out by a notch" are you referring to the grind size, the grind adjustment has drifted a notch, or are you judging based on shot times? If it's one of the former two then you have a case potentially, though heat could affect this.

Edited by Rob1
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, El carajillo said:

It takes time for machines / burr's to settle down. The burr's require a several kg's of coffee through them before they are consistent.

You say it was consistent before you removed the top bur / carrier ? This suggests that replacing caused the change ?

Did you thoroughly clean the area where the carrier sits ? any tiny grounds of coffee will prevent the carrier from sitting precisely.Coffee varies day to day with temperature and humidity. 

I had read about new burrs requiring a lot of coffee through them before settling but I honestly didn't experience this issue in a noticeable way. I do find that the mignon produced significantly more fines than my SJ, so was already feeling disheartened towards the mignon and this other issue just put the final nails in the coffin. I guess I've overreacted slightly, ha.

I also read about humidity issues, which is why I wanted to compare with the Mazzer (I bought for a price I'll be able to sell it for, so not a big risk) and the Mazzer has been consistent for the last few days.

Not sure what to do really, if the mignon is just new and inconsistent in a normal way then fine, I'll just sell it used and take the hit but I don't want to sell it with an actual issue.

Edited by newdent
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

I don't think you have a right to return an item unless it's faulty once it has been unboxed and used. Distance selling gives you a cooling off period but I don't think you're allowed to use the goods in that time. Happy to be proven wrong though. Many retailers will accept returns just for the sake of providing good service.

From what you've described it doesn't sound like there's definitely something wrong with the grinder, but if there is it sounds as if you may have caused it somehow while cleaning, though I've no idea how you would have done this.

The mignon isn't a single dosing grinder so running it with the hopper half full is necessary to try to prove or determine faults.

Fresh roasted coffee can take a while to settle down and it can be necessary to adjust the grinder back and forth for the first 7 days or so, so it's possible it was the coffee depending on how fresh it is.

Thanks Rob.

Appreciate I'm not dosing in the intended method but there was a significant change from stability on my first kg to 3 days of craziness after cleaning. The coffee is fresh but not unreasonably so, it was 9 days old. This is why I swapped to the mazzer to take the beans and humidity out of the equation and the mazzer has been faultless (except suffering with its doser).

Edited by newdent
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sounds like you had the same issue that i did.

i was getting banging coffee out of my specialita, then read a post on here about aligning the burrs, so went and realigned which in hindsight was pointless as it was working. 

it took me ages to get it back together and have the correct grind setting and it would fluctuate badly. it took me ages to get it to go stable again

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UPDATE: They now offered to take a look at it and provide a free returns label which is reasonable considering it's such a heavy item. Will wait and see what they come back with, just getting confirmation it isn't faulty would be a relief.

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4 minutes ago, spasypaddy said:

sounds like you had the same issue that i did.

i was getting banging coffee out of my specialita, then read a post on here about aligning the burrs, so went and realigned which in hindsight was pointless as it was working. 

it took me ages to get it back together and have the correct grind setting and it would fluctuate badly. it took me ages to get it to go stable again

Sounds like the type of thing I'd to do be honest, I'm not very good at the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Glad to hear that it settled down though.

I must say, I had the best intentions of putting the burr back in the way it came out but the I got distracted and can't be certain it went in the same way. It looks like a symmetrical part but I guess there's a chance it's slightly off.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

When you describe the grind as "out by a notch" are you referring to the grind size, the grind adjustment has drifted a notch, or are you judging based on shot times? If it's one of the former two then you have a case potentially, though heat could affect this.

I think this part came after I replied to you. I started grinding after cleaning and thought 'blimey, this is coming through fast', went to spin my levelling tool in it and it wouldn't go down to touch the basket. Attempted to tamp and got no compression in addition to the leveller and thought there was a chance the coffee was coarser than before because of all these symptoms and the shot was gusher.

I know the numbers on the dials don't mean much on the stepless grinders but previously 0.5 was chirping but after cleaning I had to go finer by an entire number (numbers on dial are 1 to 5). One notch is enough to make a huge difference on flow. I had no idea it would be out by so much, so I wasted loads of coffee to get it re-dialled in the first time.

Next morning I thought the opposite, the coffee was taking an age to come out of the grinder. It wasn't slight difference to the day before, it was like twice the time to grind 18g. As you might guess, the shot choked the machine, like not even a drop of coffee got through the basket in 30s. After wasting lots of coffee, same thing, was out by an entire notch. 

Next morning back to being a notch too coarse. I do not enjoy dialling in, hate wasting coffee and hate wasting my morning (and having my gf shouting out to the kitchen asking what the hold up is on her coffee, ha). Three days of that nonsense was enough for me! Once it's fixed (if confirmed broken), it's goodbye mignon!

It's the Crono, which is their bottom of the line Mignon and I don't think it's been released for long (but could be mistaken), perhaps there's some quality issues with them

Edited by newdent
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It is quite complex to fully understand the rules and retailers are able to offer different terms (ie extending return windows) providing they adhere to a minimum standard.

As I understand it -

  • You can cancel for any reason within 7 days after receiving the goods
  • You have the right to remove the goods from the packaging and to inspect them but not to use them
  • You must return goods in saleable condition with all original accessories etc but they do not have to be in the original packing if you have discarded that
  • You cannot return special order items or customised items

I hope you can come up with a decent solution.

David

www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

Izzo Alex Duetto and Alex Leva now in stock!

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I think it's 14days not 7 from when an item arrives.

If the item is used not a problem if it doesn't function as it should or doesn't meet expectations. It may need a small claims action to sort that out and a 2nd opinion as well.

Did you use the grinder with the hopper on before switching to single dosing? All seems to have been ok before you cleaned the grinder.

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19 minutes ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

It is quite complex to fully understand the rules and retailers are able to offer different terms (ie extending return windows) providing they adhere to a minimum standard.

As I understand it -

  • You can cancel for any reason within 7 days after receiving the goods
  • You have the right to remove the goods from the packaging and to inspect them but not to use them
  • You must return goods in saleable condition with all original accessories etc but they do not have to be in the original packing if you have discarded that
  • You cannot return special order items or customised items

I hope you can come up with a decent solution.

David

Thanks David.

I don't usually buy expensive, new items online as I prefer to buy used (I'm fairly poor at the moment as am studying, ha) but definitely opens your eyes to the benefits of buying from a local retailer. I think grinders are a special order item for them and I should have read their returns policy really but these things are so often generic that I didn't bother. My mistake. I'm sure their response is a fair one, I've just been spoiled by generous return policies in the past and was surprised the options were so limited.

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3 hours ago, newdent said:

Thanks Rob.

Appreciate I'm not dosing in the intended method but there was a significant change from stability on my first kg to 3 days of craziness after cleaning. The coffee is fresh but not unreasonably so, it was 9 days old. This is why I swapped to the mazzer to take the beans and humidity out of the equation and the mazzer has been faultless (except suffering with its doser).

It read as though you were using the Mignon for a few days and needing to adjust the grind, then switched to the Mazzer and noticed you didn't need to keep adjusting. It didn't sound like you had them running side by side. 

From what you said about the grind compression in the basket it does sound like it is grinding coarser than previously. So the grind setting is drifting, if that's the case you should be able to see the dial has moved too. It does sound as if you've done something to the grinder when cleaning it but no idea what that would be. I supposed it could have coincidentally developed a fault after you cleaned it.

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I read it as using as the OP wanted for a kg no problem. Cleaned out then craziness. That can be caused by grinds not clearing the grinds chamber - a little like different settings needed between hopper on and weighing in. Mazzers especially with doser on or antistatic grid removed always clear all but a very small proportion of the grinds when weighing in. Stick a clump crusher in the way and a grinder may not clear all and it can build up, part clear and etc.

Oh the other aspect on returns is fit for use. No time limit on that other than wear. The Mignon is not sold for weighing in so wouldn't apply as it's not intended to be used like that.

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Yes, I used the mignon for 1.25kg without issues, opened up to clean the burrs and grind out by 1 notch back and forth for 3 consecutive days after that. Switched to Mazzer to confirm that beans and humidity weren't an issue and have had no issues with the Mazzer.

Appreciate I didn't run them side by side but I'd boxed the mignon up ready to return it at this point. Cleaning the burrs isn't rocket science, I'm fairly handy. I've changed timing belts, clutches, gearboxes, stripped down engines, etc. I can't really see what I would have done wrong. Note that the grind adjustment dial hasn't rotated to adjust the grind but the grind has changed. It's a mystery!

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On 10/05/2021 at 10:43, newdent said:

Hi

I'm having some issues with a Eureka Mignon grinder I bought from clumsy goat less than 30 days ago. They say they can't accept returns on grinders. Can anyone with experience in consumer rights confirm please? If they are correct in refusing to accept, should they return to the manufacturer or do I have to do this? @Coff Hey could you advice on the warranty aspect with Eureka please?

From the replies I've had from them, they don't think there's an issue with the grinder and that's why they won't accept but they haven't been clear in that regard. They are suggesting that retention is an issue but I'm single dosing and weighing in vs out, so know that's not the case and I have told them this. My issue is that I took the upper burr holder out to clean and since then I had to dial in 3 days in a row. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to dial in at all after cleaning as the upper burr is stationary but accepted I may have to tweak slightly but the grind was out by an entire notch (1 out of 5). Re-dialled in, next day the grind was out by a notch in the opposite direction (so back to where it was before cleaning). Fine I thought, must just be the grind setting for when there's some residue on the burrs but next morning, it was out by a notch in the other direction again. 

Three mornings of messing around dialling in and wasting coffee was where I drew the line, I boxed it up for returning and picked up a used Mazzer that was for sale 5 mins away from where I live, dialled the Mazzer in last night. Used it this morning and all is well, so no issue with the coffee, not that I thought there was.

I don't have much time to play with as 30 days is fast approaching. Appreciate any advice. 

I am so sorry for the delay, it has been an incredibly tough few weeks as businesses prepare to open again. Forgive me!

Warranty point of view - by your description it doesn't scream manufacturing fault. But would need to inspect to be sure! Most likely answer is usually the correct one. And that'll be somethings gone astray on reassembly. With some aluminium components at play making tightening screws correctly a guessing game. And of course lots of debris it is not uncommon for the most vigilant to stumble into problems. Particularly if the lower burr holder is removed (please don't ever do this guys!). But really would need to see it to comment.

It may just be wording but you said they can't accept returns on grinders. Where you attempting to return it for a refund? If so categorically understand and myself use the same position. We are not selling these grinders significant margin. Further they are absolutely canvassed more than any other piece of equipment. To put it into perspective if I were to sell a new Specialita, collect it with DPD, clean and resell it I'd easily be overall -£50 if I can get a good price on the used unit. Scratches in return transport might be -£100 +. Of course we take the rough with the smooth. But understand why we don't tend to lap up used grinders left right and centre. Actually for my business I have a liability on grinders sold month to month that would bankrupt me tonight if even 5% where returned, used, for full refund. Seriously!

If however you where merely needing to return from a warranty point of view then I am confident there is just a misunderstanding. I can assure you Clumsy's service and aftersales is second to none. (Better than mine lol!) I suspect you just need to pick up the phone and explain your position 🙂


Sorry again for the delay! I am useless.

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A quick google search and you will find out that you have the right to refuse an item within 30 days of purchase if it is either not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described. 
The 14 day thing folk are talking about is different, that is just you have changed your mind and returning an unwanted / unused item. 
If you believe the grinder to not be of satisfactory quality, then argue your case and document it - take videos etc of the issue. 
If you paid on a credit card you have more protection if retailer gets sticky / awkward about it. This is why a lot of places only accept PayPal / Stripe etc these days as you lose the protection credit cards offer you when paying through a 3rd party merchant. 
Def worth reading up on your rights, especially when buying expensive coffee equipment.

Hope you get it sorted

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