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Gaggia TS issues


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LolHi I am experiencing some issues with a Gaggia TS and I was hoping someone would be able to help diagnose the problems.

 

1st problem - machine groans at pressure when pump is active 

 

2nd problem - steam is VERY wet 

 

Minor issues - sometimes the pump doesn't shut off when starting machine up after opening it... This was apparently to do with earth cables all being in place properly, but I have a sneaky suspiciousion the water probe is reading too high ? It doesn't seem to seat all the way on the but on the top of the boiler and would explain the wet steam? 

Also I'm not really sure about this one but my boiler pressure says it's at 1,5 bar I'm assuming this is 15 bar?  I just adjusted this to 1,2 bar, but I think I need to get a group pressure reading to accurately dial in group pressure to 9 bar. It now swings between 1-1,2 bar 

Any insight from someone who knows what could be wrong with the machine would be greatly appreciated! I just got it recently and it was rebuilt by the previous owner and I just want to get it back to proper working order. Don't get me wrong it pulls a great shot, but I know something isn't quite right and also the loud groaning noise is very annoying haha! Also not a fan of watery milk 😅

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@Astin001 it's quite likely that you are looking at the steam boiler pressure.

The probes are not always pushed all the way in and that can be normal. It's possible the machine is overfilling. Do you have some photos of the machines front an especially the interior.

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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52 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

@Astin001 it's quite likely that you are looking at the steam boiler pressure.

The probes are not always pushed all the way in and that can be normal. It's possible the machine is overfilling. Do you have some photos of the machines front an especially the interior.

Yeah that's my boiler pressure (single boiler HX) what should that be sitting at? 

I did check the probe and it's all the way down to the plastic guide that inserts to the boiler so maybe it's a retrofit part or something that's not quite long enough? I'm not sure but it just seems strange that the boiler if super full and I'm getting very wet steam... maybe it's how the boiler is seated. Is there any way to change the fill level and reduce it a little?  I'll attach some photos of the interior

PXL_20210504_123912983.jpg

PXL_20210504_123923275.jpg

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Level probes are normally cut to the right length, that probe is in as far as it will go. If it's always overfilled, then perhaps it's been changed and the new probe has been cut too short....If it's started overfilling recently, then the probe is not the problem. Has it always had very wet steam?

I will make the assumption you are purging the steam wand before steaming? For that machine a boiler pressure of 1.2 - 1.3 bar should be fine. Machine looks clean inside, no obvious leaks in the photos you have provided.

Some of those wires passing behind the panel look well pinched, or is that an optical illusion?

Is it a rotary pumped machine, or a Vibe pump?

 

P.S. keep a weather eye out on the inside, as someone has cleaned the boiler/fittings down with a descaler solution...hence some of the fittings having a pink tinge on the threads etc.. Possibly to hide leaks or possible to clean up after fixing leaks.

Edited by DavecUK

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

Level probes are normally cut to the right length, that probe is in as far as it will go. If it's always overfilled, then perhaps it's been changed and the new probe has been cut too short....If it's started overfilling recently, then the probe is not the problem. Has it always had very wet steam?

I will make the assumption you are purging the steam wand before steaming? For that machine a boiler pressure of 1.2 - 1.3 bar should be fine. Machine looks clean inside, no obvious leaks in the photos you have provided.

 

Some of those wires passing behind the panel look well pinched, or is that an optical illusion?

It looks like the stock part to be honest, I could be wrong, but it's how I got the machine. It seems like the wet steam and the boiler foaming noise is a recent development since shipping. The steam wasn't as wet before shipping (lots of stuff got knocked around) 

 

Yeah I always purge steam wand and I think the steam got more wet since I got it. Soaks my hand if I put it under the steam wand which I have never had with any machine. Haven't heard any problems from this machine having super wet steam.

 

The cables have plenty of room and aren't pinched either.

 

It's a very confusing problem that isn't very obvious and I also can't for the life of me figure out where the loud groaning noise when under pressure is from ? 

The wet steam is more of an issue but it can't be good to be making that loud noise either. My 2 main issues 

 

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image.png.6dff2442862615e57c971077c529aef1.png

It looked like those panels were touching...so an optical illusion.

Regarding the  groaning noise when under pressure...is it a vibe or rotary pumped machine? 

Take a video of the steam and try to get the pressure gauge in the shot.

Do a photo of the whole interior from a little further back.

 

Edited by DavecUK

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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32 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

image.png.6dff2442862615e57c971077c529aef1.png

It looked like those panels were touching...so an optical illusion.

Regarding the  groaning noise when under pressure...is it a vibe or rotary pumped machine? 

Take a video of the steam and try to get the pressure gauge in the shot.

Do a photo of the whole interior from a little further back.

 

Think the shadow from the flash made it look more snug haha! 

 

It's a vibe pump, I'll try send a video now but it's hard to get the video size small enough 

 

PXL_20210504_131630125.jpg

PXL_20210504_131650027.jpg

Edited by Astin001
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Upload the vid to YT as unlisted and then link it.

The noise at full pressure is probably coming from the expansion valve in the area outlined in blue. The expansion valve is towards the bottom of that area. I can't see it but that's where it is, you can see the plastic pipe coming from it which no doubt returns to the tank.

I am going to make another assumption that there is only 1 gauge on the front of the machine and it's not a dual gauge (only shows steam pressure)? It's important because sometimes when an expansion valve makes a noise, it's harmonic vibration, like a reed in a wind instrument. This can often be cured by making a small adjustment in pressure, but as you don't know what the pressure is, you can't do that

image.png

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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51 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

Upload the vid to YT as unlisted and then link it.

The noise at full pressure is probably coming from the expansion valve in the area outlined in blue. The expansion valve is towards the bottom of that area. I can't see it but that's where it is, you can see the plastic pipe coming from it which no doubt returns to the tank.

I am going to make another assumption that there is only 1 gauge on the front of the machine and it's not a dual gauge (only shows steam pressure)? It's important because sometimes when an expansion valve makes a noise, it's harmonic vibration, like a reed in a wind instrument. This can often be cured by making a small adjustment in pressure, but as you don't know what the pressure is, you can't do that

image.png

I can't see anything that would adjust pressure on there? 

I will get a group head pressure guage and see if changing the pressure works... Will it be to do with the O rings or just too much pressure? 

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Questions in bold.

On the steam one does it clean up after 4 seconds, or does the same amount of water keep coming with the steam?

Draw water from the machine in 20 ml increments:

  • how much do you get out before it fills
  • how long does the pump run to refilL the boiler after it refills
  • if you draw water again in 20 ml increments how much water do you get out before it refills

The black bit below either screws on or pushes on, take the clear tube off and see if it's a screw on or a pull off...the adjuster will probably be under there...The noise is a harmonic cause by the expansion valve. You could simply put another one on there

 

image.png.77e0b5eb6bc8106a9a3bed3f2791a5bc.png

Something like this would work very well..., threaded outlet on left to pump, smooth outlet on left = clear pipe, screw = pressure adjustment, silver bit = high pressure hose.

image.png.6974a665163f3c7158adbfd5ea977cbd.png

Where did you get this machine?

Why is there water in the bottom, where is it coming from?

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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Okay so I drew around 500ml of water out of the boiler before the pump came on and it came on for just a few seconds, maybe 5? 

 

After the water had been drawn the steam was dry! 

 

It also made less noise but it still sounded like it was struggling, never had an espresso machine that made that kind of noise, sounds like an old boiler on the frits in a house...

I found the adjustment screw, it's an Allen key inside the bit where water comes out, I may just replace it especially if that's where the noise comes from.

 

I bought the machine from a guy on Facebook, got delivered and it got banged up in the post! 

 

The water comes from the valve shown as I think when the water is high sometimes it doesn't close like shown in the video.

 

Should I pull the water probe further out from its position all the way in? As now I'm not sure if the element is fully covered !? 

 

PXL_20210504_175132948.jpg

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The vacuum breaker will weep a lot of water if the boiler was overfull as water expands when heated.

As for the water probe...did you move it and want to pull it back to the original position...or does it just feel like a good idea to move it? If it's the latter, consider leaving it alone....as pulling it out further will fill the boiler higher. Or what you could do is remove it and see how long it is, especially in relation to the heating element level...that way you will know if it's well covered....I assume some knowledge of how high the water level should be here?

It's worth mentioning that some heating elements slope down and some are straight....the one on your machine is probably straight.

image.png.4a378eb4c8afdd2269dee3d0b9e20ac9.png

 

 

899161310_ricehaiku.JPG.d69e44c11eab9645400547eea500ba1c.JPG

 

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