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Kafmasino ONE: Advanced coffee made simple


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1 minute ago, Mrboots2u said:

Thanks for the replies 

Sorry i didnt phrase the tablet question very well. Re Tablet I think the compliance , safety issues was around someone hitting the shot , button on the app, when the tablet concerned is not in the same room .

 

 

During our audit by the consultancy, if they detect that this could be a problem, we will solve it in the optimal way. If it is by means of a direct connection to the machine by cable, avoiding that hot water can be poured, we will have no problem in doing it.

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www.kafmasino.com

Advanced coffee made simple

Follow us on Kickstarter!!

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Hmm, looks Decent.

Hello everyone, thank you for the high expectation about our project. We are two brothers, Sergio and Jorge from Madrid, Spain. Two years ago we decided to start this project, since both of

Via here or Kickstarter people will ask and should ask hard questions around functionality, fit and finish and durability , back up support , and value  for money,  what financial backing a company ha

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6 minutes ago, Kafmasino said:

During our audit by the consultancy, if they detect that this could be a problem, we will solve it in the optimal way. If it is by means of a direct connection to the machine by cable, avoiding that hot water can be poured, we will have no problem in doing it.

Thanks, worth addressing at the start tho and  it if needs to be tethered tho , you may be in as position where you have to supply a tethered tablet with the Machine , which changes the cost . 

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WIth your flow profiling video I can’t really see what’s tablet and flow is doing or what it was meant to do.

Can you do one where you tell us what you expect the flow to be, show how the shot progresses and achieves that., currently all i can see Is lines on a tablet and I’m not sure what they are for and what they are meant to be doing.

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44 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

WIth your flow profiling video I can’t really see what’s tablet and flow is doing or what it was meant to do.

Can you do one where you tell us what you expect the flow to be, show how the shot progresses and achieves that., currently all i can see Is lines on a tablet and I’m not sure what they are for and what they are meant to be doing.

The flow video shows both at the beginning and during the coffee shot the flow steps to which the machine is adjusting.

We have three lines:

  • Green for pressure
  • Blue for flow
  • Orange for weightrate

If you pay attention to the video and the graphs you can see how the dotted line is the desired flow and the solid line is the actual flow.

If you have more questions about the basic profiles you can watch our video on the youtube channel or in this thread where we talk about the basic profiles.

During the Kickstarter campaign we will continue to upload videos.

www.kafmasino.com

Advanced coffee made simple

Follow us on Kickstarter!!

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1 hour ago, Mrboots2u said:

Thanks for the replies 

Sorry i didnt phrase the tablet question very well. Re Tablet I think the compliance , safety issues was around someone hitting the shot , button on the app, when the tablet concerned is not in the same room .

Re shot weight , please do more than one shot so we can see how consistent it is 

Thanks for the replies 

 

From memory I think the concern was raised by a compliance officer who was concerned that a child might grab the tablet, power on the machine, and then turn on the steam wand/group head and douse themselves in boiling water. That led to version 1.3 of the Decent which disabled the “Start Shot” button on the tablet and required a physical touch on the group head to start anything at all.

I agree with @Mrboots2u that it is likely that this same problem will need addressing in the same way before it hits the market.

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I'm sure the Kafmasino brothers are doing their best to accomplish all the phases of this project, but a well done and clear video will make them to save time in more clarifications.

I'm with Mrboots2u when i say that in the posted videos ( Kafmasino videos) is impossible to see ( literally impossible) the graphics displayed by the tablet screen....or maybe i need a new pair of glasses🧐

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What would be nice is a Video of the machine with a close up PIP (Picture in Picture) of the tablet

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Hi guys,

there are only 24 hours left before our launch on Kickstarter and we have 239 followers, that is amazing!!

We wanted to upload a video showing declining pressure profiling and here it is:

 

 

@DavecUK @Giampiero

We will post a video with a close up of the tablet 👍

 

 

www.kafmasino.com

Advanced coffee made simple

Follow us on Kickstarter!!

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Posted (edited)

Hey guys,

just wanted to make you aware that the Base machine which Kafmasino is selling is not self-developed but a generic chinese machine selling below 250€ for resellers:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Dual-boiler-15-BAR-espresso-coffee_1600232225087.html

I actually like what the two guys are doing. But I do not like that price policy.

Edited by YokuSan
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10 minutes ago, YokuSan said:

Hey guys,

just wanted to make you aware that the Base machine which Kafmasino is selling is not self-developed but a generic chinese machine selling below 250€ for resellers:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Dual-boiler-15-BAR-espresso-coffee_1600232225087.html

In my opinion, selling such a machine albeit heavily modified for over 1000€ is not exactly fair. Well let's see if people will buy it.

I actually like what the two guys are doing. But I do not like that price policy.

You are comparing the price of two machines that are totally different. One is for making traditional coffee, the other is for making coffee with pressure/flow profiling and modifying many other parameters, along with customized software adaptable to tablets and mobiles.
Therefore, it is up to the end user to decide which type of machine he wants to have.

You can buy the base machine at the price you indicate us (which is not the same price we are paying) and make all the necessary modifications and certifications for its sale and thus obtain the final machine we are selling.

www.kafmasino.com

Advanced coffee made simple

Follow us on Kickstarter!!

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Posted (edited)

And what would you like mate? to sell it at 400 euro so you can afford one?

 

Let me break it into parts for you and the rest who seems to not understand how business works:

pay for following parts (no payment for labor/rent added):

-machine 250 euro

-electronic board controler + sensors (tempx2, flowmeter, pressure sensor)- 200 euro

- software development and forum, comunity and updates/improvements over the years- 150 euro

- accesories- 80 euro 

- CE for the machine completed so they can sell it- a lot, let's say if they sell 100 machines it's 100E per machine to cover that up

- shipping+ packaging+ KS campain- 100 euro

- 8 inch tablet (70euro)

 

950 euro already, without taking into consideration stuff like labor, rent, defective machines to be replaced (example, machine gets damaged while shipping, so they have to replace it with a new one).

And of course there must be some money made, otherwise who would do it for free? 

So let me ask you again, if the price is high, why dont you build a machine like this for 400 euro?

 

And if that is not enough to convince you, let me ask you one simple and direct question, you open up a KS business and launch a machine similar to this.

 

Would you risk and do it to have a profit of only 50-200euro per machine? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Denis S
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4 minutes ago, Denis S said:

And what would you like mate? to sell it at 400 euro so you can afford one?

 

Let me break it into parts for you and the rest who seems to not understand how business works:

pay for following parts (no payment for labor/rent added):

-machine 250 euro

-electronic board controler + sensors (tempx2, flowmeter, pressure sensor)- 200 euro

- software development and forum, comunity and updates/improvements over the years- 150 euro

- accesories- 80 euro 

- CE for the machine completed so they can sell it- a lot, let's say if they sell 100 machines it's 100E per machine to cover that up

- shipping+ packaging+ KS campain- 100 euro

- 8 inch tablet (70euro)

 

950 euro already, without taking into consideration stuff like labor, rent, defective machines to be replaced (example, machine gets damaged while shipping, so they have to replace it with a new one).

And of course there must be some money made, otherwise who would do it for free? 

So let me ask you again, if the price is high, why dont you build a machine like this for 400 euro?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think 1000€ as retail price would be more acceptable. Just wanted to let Users know what they buy. They can calculate themselves if this offer is really a bargain or not.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Denis S said:

And what would you like mate? to sell it at 400 euro so you can afford one?

 

Let me break it into parts for you and the rest who seems to not understand how business works:

pay for following parts (no payment for labor/rent added):

-machine 250 euro

-electronic board controler + sensors (tempx2, flowmeter, pressure sensor)- 200 euro

- software development and forum, comunity and updates/improvements over the years- 150 euro

- accesories- 80 euro 

- CE for the machine completed so they can sell it- a lot, let's say if they sell 100 machines it's 100E per machine to cover that up

- shipping+ packaging+ KS campain- 100 euro

- 8 inch tablet (70euro)

 

950 euro already, without taking into consideration stuff like labor, rent, defective machines to be replaced (example, machine gets damaged while shipping, so they have to replace it with a new one).

And of course there must be some money made, otherwise who would do it for free? 

So let me ask you again, if the price is high, why dont you build a machine like this for 400 euro?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the final price after Kickstarter come in at 1600 euros plus vat to the Uk , then that might put people off a bit .

My concern would be , and ignore the functionality and the profit or not being made ,  will people be happy at the price for a machine that has the fit and finish of a 200 euro one. ie when they get it out of the box and look at it.  Time will tell. 

Post Kickstarter lets say 1900 euros to the uk ( £1650 ) , how will its fit and finish and durability compare to other machines , albeit with lesser functionality than that ? 

Plus I’d question some of the costs for making bigger runs of a machine but hey ,.70euros for a tablet at cost ? 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, YokuSan said:

I think 1000€ as retail price would be more acceptable. Just wanted to let Users know what they buy. They can calculate themselves if this offer is really a bargain or not.

you are posting the same thing on more forums to throw out some stuff into them. You seem to not be interested in the machine, but to be sure they dont succeed. 

 

At 1000 E price they will be doing a percent of profit that is not sustainable and doesn't cover up the risk that come with doing such stuff. 

Imagine importing machines from China, and then something happens, and the cost for shipping goes up x5 times, cause that what happened last year, a 100kg package from China went from 800 euro shipping to 3500euro. Wohoo.

My grandmother told me one, if you dont have anything good to say, it is best most of the time to not say it. 

Again, if you do not like the price, you simply dont buy. There is a big gap in the 700-2000 euro segment when it comes to smart espresso machines, machine that can be programmed to do stuff and log data. You dont have to like them or try to even understand them, I owned 3 ito machines (2xRancilio and Isomac) and now owning a Decent. This type of machines are not for everybody, you need to dig into the information and discover stuff.  I wish them the best and instead of hijacking this topic so nobody posts anymore, I would say that if you are not interested, or skeptical, let it be and wait for people's feedback if you are interested only in what will be if, or what is the outcome.

 

I have many examples of people being skeptical or against products before launching and after that they delivered more than what was expected, eg: Niche, G-iota/df64, decent.

 

The G-iota/DF64 is so popular right now that because of it Hansung/SSP grinding doesnt build full time 98mm burrs for Ultra/Ek because he is producing full time 64mm burrs for Lagom and G-iota.

Edited by Denis S
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Denis S said:

you are posting the same thing on more forums to throw out some stuff into them. You seem to not be interested in the machine, but to be sure they dont succeed. 

 

At 1000 E price they will be doing a percent of profit that is not sustainable and doesn't cover up the risk that come with doing such stuff. 

Imagine importing machines from China, and then something happens, and the cost for shipping goes up x5 times, cause that what happened last year, a 100kg package from China went from 800 euro shipping to 3500euro. Wohoo.

My grandmother told me one, if you dont have anything good to say, it is best most of the time to not say it. 

Again, if you do not like the price, you simply dont buy. There is a big gap in the 700-2000 euro segment when it comes to smart espresso machines, machine that can be programmed to do stuff and log data. You dont have to like them or try to even understand them, I owned 3 ito machines (2xRancilio and Isomac) and now owning a Decent. This type of machines are not for everybody, you need to dig into the information and discover stuff.  I wish them the best and instead of hijacking this topic so nobody post anymore, I would say that if you are not interested, or skeptical, let it be and wait for people's feedback if you are interested only in what will be if, or what is the outcome.

You're wrong. I am interested in this machine. I really like what the guys are doing. But I do not like the price. And that is my opinion. If the machine would be based on something like the Quickmill Silvano, then I would find the price acceptable.

I do not want to argue anymore. I understand your point. I just wanted to share the source of the base machine.

Edited by YokuSan
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23 minutes ago, Denis S said:

The G-iota/DF64 is so popular right now that because of it Hansung/SSP grinding doesnt build full time 98mm burrs for Ultra/Ek because he is producing full time 64mm burrs for Lagom and G-iota.

The G-IOTA is so popular because it is so inexpensive for the grind quality and flexibility (with SSP burrs) it delivers. I guess it would not be so popular if it would be sold in the price range of the Lagom.

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Posted (edited)

Via here or Kickstarter people will ask and should ask hard questions around functionality, fit and finish and durability , back up support , and value  for money,  what financial backing a company has.more so than any other purchase  as its a new start up and its on kickstarter. 

It can be beneficial for the company to hear these concerns and address them ( themselves ) as there will be a number of people thinking the same thing.

Edited by Mrboots2u
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Before the G-IOTA thread, now this one...i think i will cancel the subscription to netflix😂...sorry guys, i could not resist to an off topic.

Peace love and coffee

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Frankly I would like to see some one buy the basic machine for the price that has been mentioned. They wont direct and not from some one who retails the machine either.

In terms of fit and finish if I remember correctly weight wise it looks to be similar to a Gaggia. There is no particular reason for it to be worse.

Personally I think that a lot of comments are from people who wouldn't back a kickstarter anyway. People who do accept the risk. Final price looks fairly sensible to me. It will tempt people off typical middling prosumer gear if they want this sort of thing. Another Decent would just be that and wont due to price which like many of the items they brand are IMHO OTT for what they are. Maybe the machine isn't but .............. Actually that sort of approach isn't that unusual in the espresso area.

So a backers decisions on this Kickstarter depend on risk. Savings eventually if the machines do appear, function as they should and not just be a flash in the pan that disappear rapidly. I'm not sure that stacks up well going on the figures that have been posted. Have to wait and see. Kickstarters can stumble even at this stage.

A link was posted somewhere to a retailer that sold these machines in their basic form along with a full set of spares for them. ;) Not a UK one obviously but it does mean that these items can be available.

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I understand those who have concerns - and I said myself that I will be interested only when it's not on Kickstarter anymore, because I don't feel safe "buying" there - but I really don't get those who say "the machine should cost X".. I mean, go on Alibaba, order that machine, order the tablet, order all of the components, then do all of the work required to "smartify" the machine, and let's see if then you feel like questioning the price. 

If you don't like the product say it, and say it loudly. But I don't think it's fair to do (half-assed) calculations of profit margins and claiming the product should cost less based on those.

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