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56 minutes ago, malling said:

I actually don’t think it will be nearly as expensive, unlike Decent who designed/made everything from scratch and uses allot of custom made parts, this more look like it uses of the shelf parts, tested and well known and used technology. 

I think we might see this for approximately £2000-2500 . Although I hope for a chocker price under £2000 although That might be a little optimistic.

I think that would be a very tough sell at that price point personally. Not too long to find out!

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If they can bring it to market at a good price point I am sure it will do very well. With regards to the looks I see more Lelit that Silvia but hey lots of machines look alike so I won't hold tha

@GlenW Perhaps they will, it is sometimes difficult though. There is often a good way of doing something, that's unavoidable to have similarities to what others do. Lightbulbs, Cutlery, Computer

The existing machine is just that, a case and some bits. They too will have to work out the same things that Decent did. Actually to my mind making use of a current by the look of it well made ch

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49 minutes ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

I think that would be a very tough sell at that price point personally. Not too long to find out!

Lets see, the cheapest Decent is at the moment listed at £2544 excl. shipping, Import duties and VAT. And then you have to wait months for it to arrive. 

If they can sell it for approximately  £2000 include import duties and VAT. I’m pretty certain they should  have no problem selling it. 

what other machines are there really that can do both pressure and flow profile in that price range. Most PP machine is in the excess of £2500 the only one that would be in the same ranger are either Levers or E61 with a manual valve on the brewhead. 

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3 hours ago, ajohn said:

There are other ways of measuring flow but coffee machines seem to stick with the vanes and other methods may have the same problem.

The issue decent had from this video (timestamped): https://youtu.be/tGwC_P1nrdY?t=79 was that the accuracy wasn't good enough, +/- 15% so they use a physics model based on pump strokes that is +/- 3% accurate. I think getting accurate real time changes in flow rate so the pressure can be adjusted for flow profiles is important. I guess it also relies on how fast you can change the pressure that is being applied, if it will also be in the thousands of times per second that the decent manages

The machine would probably have to be less than 2k for sure, probably less for kickstarter backers. Most people would be happy with something like the bianca for £1850 instead with the bellabarista warranty and not having to wait one year or more for the production.

It has some good ideas and it could craft a niche in the market, as long as it doesn't meet any supply and demand issues like a lot of other products are struggling with

 

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I'd suspect well sub 2k is possible especially if they sell direct. It's easy to overestimate the cost of the additional bits needed to do this sort of thing. Software seems to be a one man band.

Not all people are keen on what comes out with long flow time coffee brewing. Sure it can taste different. I've been messing with it. 15sec of drips. Limited to that because the machine can do it. Turns out that the taste and strength change actually occurs in the first 7. I haven't looked at what changes of that time and further pump power changes can do. In the same area I found that taste could scarcely change from a ratio of 1 to 2 to 3 on  bean that would normally give a very very distinct one over that range. I could also do it E61 style but in a different way. TBH I don't think I will bother.

Supply and demand will always be a limitation in this area of coffee making. It is on existing machines - retailers sell out of them. All depends on how popular they are.

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21 hours ago, Dallah said:

It looks like it fell from the top of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. 

Wow, poor guys, it's not their design, it's a AVX ( Hungarians) DB machine transformed with the software and the tablet I think. The guys are Spanish, I actually had spoke before with one of them a while ago asking if we could put a PID on my Silvia V6. The real machine it's like in the renders.

tapatalk_1256325537.jpeg

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1 minute ago, profesor_historia said:

Wow, poor guys, it's not their design, it's a AVX ( Hungarians) DB machine transformed with the software and the tablet I think. The guys are Spanish, I actually had spoke before with one of them a while ago asking if we could put a PID on my Silvia V6. The real machine it's like in the renders.

tapatalk_1256325537.jpeg

https://www.ecafe.es/tienda/cafeteras/901-cafetera-espresso-avx-em-db1.html

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Nothing wrong with taking something ad trying to make it better......happened in the car industry for years......

1808484491_dfk41toffee2.JPG.78120b8fa5b4a1ac62bd0d035cf72d1f.JPG

 

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24 minutes ago, profesor_historia said:

Wow, poor guys, it's not their design, it's a AVX ( Hungarians) DB machine transformed with the software and the tablet I think. The guys are Spanish, I actually had spoke before with one of them a while ago asking if we could put a PID on my Silvia V6. The real machine it's like in the renders.

tapatalk_1256325537.jpeg

That changes things quite allot, can see it retail for £474 So it should be able to be had for under £900
 

Actually I thought they build it from scratch, but basically just took a cheap single boiler with a thermoblock for steaming. 

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The tablet design is virtually identical to the Insight skin as mentioned earlier. Just like Felicita / Acaia Lunar doesn’t feel right.

The Decent inside was designed from the ground up , where the sensors go, how and what they measure. Not sure how bolting the software / sensors etc.. to an existing design will work as well but no doubt we’ll see in a few weeks. Within the Decent app there re a number of skins that display the graphs and data differently. Seems lazy just to copy the app exactly.

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The existing machine is just that, a case and some bits. They too will have to work out the same things that Decent did.

Actually to my mind making use of a current by the look of it well made chassis and case with a stainless boiler and thermoblock makes a lot of sense.

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The machine appears to be this $255 Corrima, presumably modified so that it can talk to the tablet and other features they list.

Edit: the original alibaba link I posted seems to have died, but this manufacturer has many models they make and perhaps there’s a new link for that model. Here is their catalog https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=638&SearchText=corrima

Ah found a new link for it https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/15-bar-Espresso-coffee-machine-CRM3007G_1600134136700.html

7FBFD9BB-DBD1-4544-962C-7695309F9B9C.thumb.jpeg.0a6ff9ec4a413ffbecfcfb4ad6031a07.jpeg5A212912-3F5D-4CF4-B4B1-7157E0629A12.thumb.jpeg.9bff0b1078ddfe1ad572ad99fa4307ab.jpeg

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The basic unit has a similar size and weight to the Gaggia Classic. It seems to have a 15bar boiler. Sales as a profiling machine I would say depends on the price it finishes up at ;) providing it works. There is no reason why it shouldn't really given the effort that may be needed. At say middling prosumer prices I would suspect it would gain some interest.

Where it may fail is why the PID Picino didn't work out. The espresso machine maker in this case thought that at the price they would need to sell it at no one would buy it. PID could only help so far on a machine like that anyway.

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1 hour ago, filthynines said:

I think precisely zero machine manufacturers will be losing sleep over this.

I agree, it's an interesting concept but it's neither new, nor pretty. I applaud the ingenuity but I wouldn't buy this. 

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The base machine looks good, will be interesting to see what they've done internally and where/how they've added sensors. 

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42 minutes ago, Jomo04 said:

Is that Aussie dollars? That would be US$197 / £142 per unit.

It's £204.05 (2-49) and £185.83 (>50) at current exchange rate not including shipping etc. And no it's USD as you can see in the thumbnail but if you follow the link you can change the currency to whatever you want.

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10 hours ago, decent_espresso said:

The machine appears to be this $255 Corrima, presumably modified so that it can talk to the tablet and other features they list.

Edit: the original alibaba link I posted seems to have died, but this manufacturer has many models they make and perhaps there’s a new link for that model. Here is their catalog https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=638&SearchText=corrima

Ah found a new link for it https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/15-bar-Espresso-coffee-machine-CRM3007G_1600134136700.html

7FBFD9BB-DBD1-4544-962C-7695309F9B9C.thumb.jpeg.0a6ff9ec4a413ffbecfcfb4ad6031a07.jpeg5A212912-3F5D-4CF4-B4B1-7157E0629A12.thumb.jpeg.9bff0b1078ddfe1ad572ad99fa4307ab.jpeg

As previously mentioned seems to be an AVX DB1......customized.

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2 hours ago, Giampiero said:

As previously mentioned seems to be an AVX DB1......customized.

You're free to make your own mind up, but to my eyes AVX is a reseller of many models https://www.avxcafe.hu/ from many companies, and they are not an espresso machine factory. 

Whereas Corrima has a factory, and a video showing them making the espresso machines:

https://corrima.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.shop_video.88.29

It can be quite hard to figure out who is a reseller and who is a factory, but my rule of thumb is that whoever is selling a given model by-far the cheapest, is the likely manufacturer.

 

Screen Shot 2021-04-24 at 11.10.53 AM.jpg

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