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Kafmasino One

9K views 61 replies 22 participants last post by  Roko 
#1 ·
I hesitate to post this but I guess if people see it before the kickstarter is launched and they eagerly sign up to an early bird reward it could be a positive.

https://kafmasino.com/

Looks like an almost total rip-off of the DE1 with maybe a generic build of the machine itself that has been modified with the necessary sensors and controls.

Or it could all just be a lie like so many other kickstarter projects of the type.
 
#2 ·
I hesitate to post this but I guess if people see it before the kickstarter is launched and they eagerly sign up to an early bird reward it could be a positive.

https://kafmasino.com/

Looks like an almost total rip-off of the DE1 with maybe a generic build of the machine itself that has been modified with the necessary sensors and controls.

Or it could all just be a lie like so many other kickstarter projects of the type.
They are one of our new advertisers (along with Rave Coffee...I think it's a little different in that it has a 500ml brew boiler...

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56711-cfuk-advertisers-list/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=838790&embedComment=838790&embedDo=findComment#comment-838790
 
#3 ·
Hm I searched for the name but it didn't bring anything up, must be the use of a special character.

Well if it's a legitimate thing it'll be interesting. I can't look at stuff like this without thinking of the Arist. Hopefully we get to see the internals on the kickstarter page.
 
#4 ·
I think it's great that they thought we were a forum worth advertising on, didn't try and spam us, but did things the right way...to me that says a lot about a company. I too am very interested to see more about the technology when the Kickstarter goes live. The more choice people have the better IMO.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
I hesitate to post this but I guess if people see it before the kickstarter is launched and they eagerly sign up to an early bird reward it could be a positive.

https://kafmasino.com/

Looks like an almost total rip-off of the DE1 with maybe a generic build of the machine itself that has been modified with the necessary sensors and controls.

Or it could all just be a lie like so many other kickstarter projects of the type.
Look like the love child of Decent and miss Silvia...

I'm not sure they should ever have hooked up, because that is one ugly baby.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
I couldn't help but notice some similarities between the app shown in the video on their site and my Decent machine

e.g. this screen (screengrab from their video when making a coffee)

Computer Personal computer Font Parallel Rectangle


and this:
Rectangle Font Parallel Slope Technology

(I was lazy and didn't take a photo whilst actually taking a shot - otherwise would have looked even more similar)

and also between the profile editing screen:

Computer Personal computer Output device Font Display device


and this:

Computer Personal computer Rectangle Font Line


I get that it's an early look at a new product - but I would have thought they would have wanted to put their 'own stamp' on the customer experience and not have something that feels so similar to a competitor
 

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#13 ·
Adding the buttons so that it can be used without a tablet is an interesting touch. Pity the gravimetric dosing is via scales on the drip tray but if an SBE can produce shots to better than 2ml ;) assuming people can persuade it to work as it can isn't that good enough? I'd assume the flow meter in this one can function more accurately than the SBE can.

As Dave mentions a touch screen is a touch screen - only so much can be done with them for this sort of use, or any other if mimicking a mouse is included. They mimic sliders, push buttons and knobs etc.

Style - Silvia and Gaggia like. Maybe they should put an E61 head on it rather than the wart on Decent's machine.

They may just turn out to be yet another premium price type company.
 
#20 ·
Adding the buttons so that it can be used without a tablet is an interesting touch. Pity the gravimetric dosing is via scales on the drip tray but if an SBE can produce shots to better than 2ml ;) assuming people can persuade it to work as it can isn't that good enough? I'd assume the flow meter in this one can function more accurately than the SBE can.

As Dave mentions a touch screen is a touch screen - only so much can be done with them for this sort of use, or any other if mimicking a mouse is included. They mimic sliders, push buttons and knobs etc.

Style - Silvia and Gaggia like. Maybe they should put an E61 head on it rather than the wart on Decent's machine.

They may just turn out to be yet another premium price type company.
I actually don't think it will be nearly as expensive, unlike Decent who designed/made everything from scratch and uses allot of custom made parts, this more look like it uses of the shelf parts, tested and well known and used technology.

I think we might see this for approximately £2000-2500 . Although I hope for a chocker price under £2000 although That might be a little optimistic.
 
#15 ·
The flow meter is an interesting part, especially as decent removed their flow meter because they couldn't find one that was accurate enough without being far too expensive.

I do hope they can get the prototype into some other peoples hands maybe at some events when things are more relaxed, because kickstarter is always big risk especially when dealing with expensive products like this. As far as looks go it is a prototype so I don't mind the price, performance and reliability I would say are going to be key to how well it performs.

It is an interesting idea, still a bit rough around the edges in some regards but interesting to see where it goes
 
#19 ·
I do hope they can get the prototype into some other peoples hands maybe at some events when things are more relaxed, because kickstarter is always big risk especially when dealing with expensive products like this. As far as looks go it is a prototype so I don't mind the price, performance and reliability I would say are going to be key to how well it performs.

It is an interesting idea, still a bit rough around the edges in some regards but interesting to see where it goes
I'd love to get my hands on a prototype ... although I suspect that won't happen.
 
#16 ·
Things seem to be changing with flow meters and commercial ones are not that expensive. Sage's problem is that they are before the OPV so can be plastic. Of late some higher pressure ones are appearing but still not 16bar. However measuring actual flow is likely to be different. What the usual type can do is be monitored and pulses indicate the flow of liquid and it's unlikely to be linear so if other aspects of brewing coffee are pretty constant they can work and cope with reasonable variations in prep.

Decent probably dropped it due to the flow rates the machine can brew at. This lot may find the same. The meters are full of liquid and sort of jet like arrangement where fluid goes in causes vanes to rotate. Those are counted. Our Morphy Richards hot water dispenser works they same way and delivers pretty accurate amounts. Flow rates into it's boiler are not slow.

There are other ways of measuring flow but coffee machines seem to stick with the vanes and other methods may have the same problem.
 
#23 ·
There are other ways of measuring flow but coffee machines seem to stick with the vanes and other methods may have the same problem.
The issue decent had from this video (timestamped): was that the accuracy wasn't good enough, +/- 15% so they use a physics model based on pump strokes that is +/- 3% accurate. I think getting accurate real time changes in flow rate so the pressure can be adjusted for flow profiles is important. I guess it also relies on how fast you can change the pressure that is being applied, if it will also be in the thousands of times per second that the decent manages

The machine would probably have to be less than 2k for sure, probably less for kickstarter backers. Most people would be happy with something like the bianca for £1850 instead with the bellabarista warranty and not having to wait one year or more for the production.

It has some good ideas and it could craft a niche in the market, as long as it doesn't meet any supply and demand issues like a lot of other products are struggling with
 
#17 ·
I'm looking with interest too.

- Price point: This will be the key, IMO.
- The machine has a boiler: Will be interesting if the software allows you to control the temperature at the group and how precise the temperature control is. Is the boiler just doing the bulk of the work and maybe there's a small heater or is it just a standard boiler/pid approach? (unlike the Decent, which has no boilers)
- Thermoblock steaming: I would be very interested in knowing how well this performs
- Software: Will the machine be able to be used if, for whichever reason, they go out of business? Is there any cloud nonsense involved for basic operation? Can the tablet be easily replaced, and can the app be downloaded to any standard vanilla/stock Android tablet?

Looks... Meh. If it is a great product, looks ok to me. It's a hybrid Gaggia Classic / Rancilio Silvia / Lelit Victoria kind of thing. 🙂
 
#18 ·
The problem with thermo steam is well known - scale for obvious reasons. It works as many Sage owners know. Steam is steam. ;) Maybe a separate tank of triple distilled water would be the best answer but in real terms they can be descaled. On Sage it's done by running descaler through at brew settings as the same thermothingy is used.
 
#25 ·
I'd suspect well sub 2k is possible especially if they sell direct. It's easy to overestimate the cost of the additional bits needed to do this sort of thing. Software seems to be a one man band.

Not all people are keen on what comes out with long flow time coffee brewing. Sure it can taste different. I've been messing with it. 15sec of drips. Limited to that because the machine can do it. Turns out that the taste and strength change actually occurs in the first 7. I haven't looked at what changes of that time and further pump power changes can do. In the same area I found that taste could scarcely change from a ratio of 1 to 2 to 3 on bean that would normally give a very very distinct one over that range. I could also do it E61 style but in a different way. TBH I don't think I will bother.

Supply and demand will always be a limitation in this area of coffee making. It is on existing machines - retailers sell out of them. All depends on how popular they are.
 
#30 ·
The tablet design is virtually identical to the Insight skin as mentioned earlier. Just like Felicita / Acaia Lunar doesn't feel right.

The Decent inside was designed from the ground up , where the sensors go, how and what they measure. Not sure how bolting the software / sensors etc.. to an existing design will work as well but no doubt we'll see in a few weeks. Within the Decent app there re a number of skins that display the graphs and data differently. Seems lazy just to copy the app exactly.
 
#31 ·
The existing machine is just that, a case and some bits. They too will have to work out the same things that Decent did.

Actually to my mind making use of a current by the look of it well made chassis and case with a stainless boiler and thermoblock makes a lot of sense.
 
#32 · (Edited by Moderator)
The machine appears to be this $255 Corrima, presumably modified so that it can talk to the tablet and other features they list.

Edit: the original alibaba link I posted seems to have died, but this manufacturer has many models they make and perhaps there's a new link for that model. Here is their catalog https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=638&SearchText=corrima

Ah found a new link for it https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/15-bar-Espresso-coffee-machine-CRM3007G_1600134136700.html

Product Font Operating system Screenshot Software
White Gas Technology Machine Font
 

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#34 ·
The basic unit has a similar size and weight to the Gaggia Classic. It seems to have a 15bar boiler. Sales as a profiling machine I would say depends on the price it finishes up at ;) providing it works. There is no reason why it shouldn't really given the effort that may be needed. At say middling prosumer prices I would suspect it would gain some interest.

Where it may fail is why the PID Picino didn't work out. The espresso machine maker in this case thought that at the price they would need to sell it at no one would buy it. PID could only help so far on a machine like that anyway.
 
#36 ·
The base machine looks good, will be interesting to see what they've done internally and where/how they've added sensors.
 
#46 · (Edited by Moderator)
I never heard off or used a $2-300 pump machine that where actually capable at making drinkable espresso, more often then not it could hardly be described as espresso. I yet to see any indication something have changed, even though they can make it allot cheaper in China, even over there, there is a limit for how cheap they can make it and still make it work. I lived in asia, so I have seen my fair share of cheapies Chinese machines and counterfeit.

so unless they drastically changed the machine I have a hard time seeing it as functional machine.

but let's see where it lands.
 
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