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Gaggia Classic tripped fuses.


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2006 GC that I started to use Puly cleaner in the blind basket , it then tripped the mains fuse and it looks like the black pressure release hose with the circlip became unattached from the solenoid and sprayed a bit of water over the insides /electrics creating the fuse trip and electric "smell".

My question is what to check for after I get it dried and start again ?

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My guess would be water bridging the terminal of the boiler to the boiler itself, or getting the heating elements wet (shorting them to the boiler). Most of the rest I can think of has electrical insulation. Hopefully you didn't get any inside the switch plate.

Maybe try disconnecting the boiler heating elements (four pins in square formation) and seeing if that still trips. 

Edited by Michael87
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1 hour ago, Michael87 said:

My guess would be water bridging the terminal of the boiler to the boiler itself, or getting the heating elements wet (shorting them to the boiler). Most of the rest I can think of has electrical insulation. Hopefully you didn't get any inside the switch plate.

Maybe try disconnecting the boiler heating elements (four pins in square formation) and seeing if that still trips. 

Thanks, I will try that tomorrow .

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If any water / moisture gets on the heating terminals the insulation material inside absorbs moisture and shorts out the elements. If this has happened it can take quite a time to dry them out as M-- 87 mentioned

Using your meter set to low  ohms, short the 2 meter terminals together, this will usually give a buzzing sound from the meter and indicate no resistance.

Now place meter probes one on element terminal the other on the boiler case. This should not gige a reding / nobuzzing. Repeat on other 3 terminals, you should not get a reading =0

Why did the hose come off ? is it split / damaged ? or is it blocked / restrickted /squeezed ?

Edited by El carajillo
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Just now, El carajillo said:

If any water / moisture gets on the heating terminals the insulation material inside absorbs moisture and shorts out the elements. If this has happened it can take quite a time to dry them out as M-- 87 mentioned

Using your meter set to low  ohms, short the 2 meter terminals together, this will usually give a buzzing sound from the meter and indicate no resistance.

Now place meter probes one on element terminal the other on the boiler case. This should not gige a reding / nobuzzing. Repeat on other 3 terminals, you should not get a reading =0

Thanks, I will try tomorrow...from what you say it sounds like if it is the boiler unit it might work again after drying out ?

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20 minutes ago, El carajillo said:

If any water / moisture gets on the heating terminals the insulation material inside absorbs moisture and shorts out the elements. If this has happened it can take quite a time to dry them out as M-- 87 mentioned

Using your meter set to low  ohms, short the 2 meter terminals together, this will usually give a buzzing sound from the meter and indicate no resistance.

Now place meter probes one on element terminal the other on the boiler case. This should not gige a reding / nobuzzing. Repeat on other 3 terminals, you should not get a reading =0

Why did the hose come off ? is it split / damaged ? or is it blocked / restrickted /squeezed ?

Thanks, the hose has never been off whilst in my ownership ( 6 years ) and regularly Puly and calcify treatment...always Tesco Ashbeck. No restrictions in black tube or stainless exit tubes.

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14 hours ago, foxy said:

My question is what to check for after I get it dried and start again ?

check that it's dried out and then after that check again....i wish you well. :classic_smile:

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8 hours ago, Rincewind said:

check that it's dried out and then after that check again....i wish you well. :classic_smile:

thank you, I will get the hair dryer on it !  

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10 hours ago, Rincewind said:

check that it's dried out and then after that check again....i wish you well. :classic_smile:

 

Disconnected the 4 boiler pins then turned GC on ...it started the brew cycle WITHOUT the switch being turned on and a slight bit of smoke from the brew switch. Have not tried putting the 4 pins on again until delving a bit more .  Obviously reluctant to blame the switch because of the cost implication and in case it is not the problem ??

All advice gratefully received .

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As it is disconnected from the boiler it woud seem the problem lies with the switch or it's wiring. Did it trip the circuit ?  Possibly water / moisture inside the switch.

UNPLUG--- thoroughly dru the switch and cables with the hair drier.       Did you check the boiler terminals to case with a meter ? = result ?

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Thanks , I am drying the switch as we talk...yes it tripped the circuit .   The multimeter is a bit of guess work but much the same nil readings on all 4 boiler terminals, see photo . Assuming that I have the meter on the correct mode what does it tell you ?

IMG_3137.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, foxy said:

Thanks , I am drying the switch as we talk...yes it tripped the circuit .   The multimeter is a bit of guess work but much the same nil readings on all 4 boiler terminals, see photo . Assuming that I have the meter on the correct mode what does it tell you ?

Meter is on the correct mode (resistance) and just to be sure, the mains power is off / disconnected.  Put one probe on the earth terminal (or some part of the metal case, or the top of the boiler or ... the list of metallic places goes on and on). Then take the second probe and go to each switch connection point in turn - there should be no circuit (infinite resistance or O.L as your meter shows).  Trouble is, any water may not conduct at the low voltage your meter uses, but when 240VAC is applied, it can quite easily conduct.  If you have access to a Meggar (and know how to use it) then that would be a much better test.

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9 minutes ago, PACMAN said:

Meter is on the correct mode (resistance) and just to be sure, the mains power is off / disconnected.  Put one probe on the earth terminal (or some part of the metal case, or the top of the boiler or ... the list of metallic places goes on and on). Then take the second probe and go to each switch connection point in turn - there should be no circuit (infinite resistance or O.L as your meter shows).  Trouble is, any water may not conduct at the low voltage your meter uses, but when 240VAC is applied, it can quite easily conduct.  If you have access to a Meggar (and know how to use it) then that would be a much better test.

Thanks Pacman, I get no reading from the top or middle terminal but .546 on the lower terminal.

I do not have a Meggar tester .

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29 minutes ago, PACMAN said:

Meter is on the correct mode (resistance) and just to be sure, the mains power is off / disconnected.  Put one probe on the earth terminal (or some part of the metal case, or the top of the boiler or ... the list of metallic places goes on and on). Then take the second probe and go to each switch connection point in turn - there should be no circuit (infinite resistance or O.L as your meter shows).  Trouble is, any water may not conduct at the low voltage your meter uses, but when 240VAC is applied, it can quite easily conduct.  If you have access to a Meggar (and know how to use it) then that would be a much better test.

This is my dream for people who have Classics blowing the trip/fuse

That and testing before and after! Long live the Megger

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9 minutes ago, Uncletits said:

This is my dream for people who have Classics blowing the trip/fuse

That and testing before and after! Long live the Megger

Suspect that even if I had access to a Meggar I would need A level electronics to use it .

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3 hours ago, foxy said:

Thanks Pacman, I get no reading from the top or middle terminal but .546 on the lower terminal.

As you'll already have worked out (by the tripped power etc) that's not good news!  From the cct diagram, the bottom wire goes to the solenoid - though looking again at this cct diag, it is a 120V one and the water pump has 4 connections - mine has only 2 (and is a 240V version), so maybe I've not linked the correct diag!

Other than any green (green yellow) wires, none of your wires should give a low reading like that when checking against earth as the reference (2nd probe connection).  If you take resistance readings on the 2 solenoid wires, what do you get?  There is a third electrical connection on my solenoid but it is not connected - not sure what it is for so don't worry about that one if there's no wire on it.

Gaggia Classic Circuit Diagram.pdf

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6 hours ago, Uncletits said:

This is my dream for people who have Classics blowing the trip/fuse

That and testing before and after! Long live the Megger

Why ??? do you want an insulation tester ?     I have a insulation and resistance tester to sell. Probably put it in the for sale section shortly.

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19 minutes ago, El carajillo said:

Why ??? do you want an insulation tester ?     I have a insulation and resistance tester to sell. Probably put it in the for sale section shortly.

I’ve been in Technical & Appliance Repairs for 35 years so I’m already kitted out aplenty 

Its the best way to test Classics tripping out

Its also why I comment sometimes when people give dangerous advice to clearly incompetent people

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