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ECM Synchronika - about to pull the trigger


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Hi All

I am about to pull the trigger on the above machine. Before I do what are peoples thoughts - am I making a big mistake and are there other machines beter at this price. 

A fellow member recently posted about a izzo alex duetto iv and as these are siilar prices I have been toying between the two.

What is the considered wisdom of the gang?

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1 hour ago, Geezercdg said:

Hi All

I am about to pull the trigger on the above machine. Before I do what are peoples thoughts - am I making a big mistake and are there other machines beter at this price. 

A fellow member recently posted about a izzo alex duetto iv and as these are siilar prices I have been toying between the two.

What is the considered wisdom of the gang?

Have a dig around. Some people are not too happy about the fact ECM/Profitec removed the setting where you could have both heating elements working simultaneously. Some complaining that the steam is rather pour, specially if you decide to steam and brew at the same time, as it gives priority to the brew boiler heating element by default (you can change to steam priority if you want). Have a look around and you'll see the threads.

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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I’ve also toyed with the idea of getting one of these in the past and more recently. I always end up deciding:

1) they are too pretty for me. Nice to look at, but I’d probably freak out during daily use that I’d scratch or damage it somehow

2) the point made above about the boiler elements. The headline steam details were a big pull for me but from what I read, the real world use may not deliver in all respects what I would maybe hope from a machine in excess of £2k.

That being said, I’ve never used one or seen one in the flesh (or metal). There are many happy owners out there whose opinion you should also take into account 😀 

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7 minutes ago, cengland117 said:

I’ve also toyed with the idea of getting one of these in the past and more recently. I always end up deciding:

1) they are too pretty for me. Nice to look at, but I’d probably freak out during daily use that I’d scratch or damage it somehow

2) the point made above about the boiler elements. The headline steam details were a big pull for me but from what I read, the real world use may not deliver in all respects what I would maybe hope from a machine in excess of £2k.

That being said, I’ve never used one or seen one in the flesh (or metal). There are many happy owners out there whose opinion you should also take into account 😀 

I'm sure they are great machines. I had it's cheaper sister, the Pro-70 back in the day, when the Synchronika was not even born. It had the option to operate with both elements on, and that was noticeable in the steam performance, IMO. But saying that, the designed has since changed, so maybe it's no longer a big deal. Saying that, the only time you really notice that, from what I remember, was when trying to steam and brew at the same time. From memory, it wasn't that the machine didn't do its job, but the performance wasn't as good as when both elements were working side by side. It was a fine machine. I have found memories. 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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3 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Have a dig around. Some people are not too happy about the fact ECM/Profitec removed the setting where you could have both heating elements working simultaneously. Some complaining that the steam is rather pour, specially if you decide to steam and brew at the same time, as it gives priority to the brew boiler heating element by default (you can change to steam priority if you want). Have a look around and you'll see the threads.

Thank you, its such a hard decision when your a newb like me. I can't seem to locate any discussions about this issue????

There are a few at this price point and I can't for the life of me see the wood for trees!!!

Edited by Geezercdg
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1 minute ago, Geezercdg said:

Thanks you, its such a hard decision when your a newb like me. I can't seem to locate any discussions about this issue????

This this was the one I was thinking of. 

 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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I had the Profitec 700 a few years ago as well. My penchant is for levers so take what I say with a pinch of salt! For me, the Profitec was to German! That is to say it was boxy, efficient, and ever so boring. So, what do you want a coffee machine to do exactly. Well, I have a theory that if you lined up 10 coffee machines and took the most super taster you could find and blind folded him, he would not have a clue as to which machine made which cup, although I accept that there will be differences obviously. I am saying, the machine makes coffee from what you put into it. The grinder is the most important part, closely followed by your own individual fieldcraft.

For the price of the ECM, there are plenty of other options. @Davecuk has road tested a few others in depth  but he has not elected to do the ECM......maybe there is a reason? There are probably a few ECM owners on here and I am sure in unison they would all chirp at how great their machine is, after all, why would they not......it takes an independent reviewer to really give you the low down

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com 

Edited by dfk41
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Bye Bye...........come back when you have less time

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16 minutes ago, dfk41 said:

I had the Profitec 700 a few years ago as well. My penchant is for levers so take what I say with a pinch of salt! For me, the Profitec was to German! That is to say it was boxy, efficient, and ever so boring. So, what do you want a coffee machine to do exactly. Well, I have a theory that if you lined up 10 coffee machines and took the most super taster you could find and blind folded him, he would not have a clue as to which machine made which cup, although I accept that there will be differences obviously. I am saying, the machine makes coffee from what you put into it. The grinder is the most important part, closely followed by your own individual fieldcraft.

For the price of the ECM, there are plenty of other options. @Davecuk has road tested a few others in depth  but he has not elected to do the ECM......maybe there is a reason? There are probably a few ECM owners on here and I am sure in unison they would all chirp at how great their machine is, after all, why would they not......it takes an independent reviewer to really give you the low down

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com 

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of these reviews, I have not seen these before. I'm glad I asked the question now as I had not seen much in the way of negative comments about the ECM Synch. What did you go to after the profitec 700 (and what grinder do you have) Im in the market for both.

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@Geezercdg - I second @dfk41 . If you are sold on looks, top build quality, layout, components etc - doesn't mean they won't have problems! - then I suppose you made your mind up. I, personally, am not a fan of the looks of the Syncrhonika. 

For the price of the Syncrhonika, personally, I think there are far better machines out there. Do check a look at the link DFK posted above. Take a look at the Bianca at least, which is the top of the range of the Lelit domestic machines line, and is also a Dual Boiler. Don't overlook the grinder. As said above, it's the most important part of your setup. If you are into single dosing, and like different methods of brewing, the Niche Zero is a very popular choice.

Fun times. 🙂 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Best option from Profitec 700 (only, not 600) and EMC Syncrhonika in my opinion the upgradet 2L steam boiler at 2.0 Bar presure, but I am agree they brew coffee like many other 🙂  

Edited by JackHK
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38 minutes ago, JackHK said:

Best option from Profitec 700 (only, not 600) and EMC Syncrhonika in my opinion the upgradet 2L steam boiler at 2.0 Bar presure, but I am agree they brew coffee like many other 🙂  

Sorry Jack I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying you prefer the ECM Synchronika?

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9 minutes ago, Geezercdg said:

Sorry Jack I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying you prefer the ECM Synchronika?

No, what I 'm saying is the steam power is better in both Profitec 700 and ECM Synchronika, than other similar e61 machines in the marked, the spec are very much the same in both machines.

Other e61 machines in the marked have 1L to 1,4L steam boiler, with about 1,5 bar for max, some lower

Edited by JackHK
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The Synchronika (I own one) is indeed an excellent machine. Very nicely put together and uses largely mechanical parts as opposed to multiple electronic valves which can, occasionally, be a point of failure. From memory the Synchronika has only one in the whole machine vs some other brands that may have four or five.

The steam boiler heating element thing is a little annoying. As far as I can work out you cannot prioritise the steam boiler over the brew boiler either. That said, I have found that a longer heat up time than I was allowing for has improved things for me and I am also yet to try a different steam tip. It seems others are getting great results with the four hole vs the stock two hole.

Certainly the brew temperature seems to have been incredibly stable for me which is the most important factor. Limited opportunities this year to make five or six coffees back to back for obvious reasons but for two or three it recovers before I’ve even emptied the PF and ground the next shot.

The reason I bought ECM in the end was user serviceability. I’m very mechanically adept but not hugely experienced with espresso machines (getting there) and I appreciate the internal design and material choices that ECM makes vs some other brands I have seen or had experience of.

Do get a decent grinder. I currently have a Mignon that is about six years old. Nice little grinder but sub par for a machine of this standard. I need to upgrade. Take a look at Niche but on demand grinders like the Eureka Atom 75 are also a good bet. I am going to upgrade my grinder imminently.

Lots of people here rate Lelit. Seem like good machines with several reviews and they have some clever money saving tech (Mara X) but personally I did not like the finishing. 

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I should add, when I say user serviceability I meant that being able to service it in full myself was important to me. Servicing can be costly it seems and I am not willing to pay 20% of the cost of the machine for it to have a service. Imagine doing that for a car?

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39 minutes ago, duncan-m-w said:

Hey @cengland117- I note from another thread your are expecting a new machine imminently..... Given you were considering the Synchronika, may I ask what you ended up going for instead?

You may! ACS Minima. I wasn’t sold on the looks but it has really grown on me and you can’t really argue with the specs and price point 

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Ah! Congrats @cengland117 

If it could be plumbed, that would have been my machine of choice!

I was close to pulling the trigger on the Synchrronika as well, but two more days of reading and watching videos is leading me away again. Seen more issues cropping up than I was expecting for something at this price point and where most people preach about build quality..... 

This one seems alarming:

https://youtu.be/hl7Xxt3oNPM

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So a machine that is never switched off or serviced for two years developed some problems. I am not surprised.

The technician is also a German retailer who does not sell ECM but does sell many competitor brands.

I wouldn’t read too much into that. Just as I would take the positive frothing that Whole Latte Love give ECM with a pinch of salt. They’re a retailer that sell ECM, of course they’re going to be incredibly positive.

I did my own research and made my decision based on that. Did I spend more time researching ECM than I did some other brands due to their greater market visibility? Probably. But I’m comfortable with that, I still did the research. 

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I watched the video too and it is difficult to draw conclusions from it without knowing more history. If the machine genuinely hasn’t been switched off for 2 years I am not surprised by the wear it is showing. 

I have seen quite a few people talking about faulty toggle valves on ECM models recently but I think generally they are very well put together and designed machines. 

I think much like with a lot of appliances it is how they are looked after and serviced that makes the difference in the long run.

David 

www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

Bezzera machines back in stock!

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I should add that I don’t have anything against retailers promoting their products. That’s good retail and usually a sign of a retailer that will support you if they get your business.

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