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UK import taxes for coffee gear post Brexit


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In order for you to pay no VAT on a purchase made abroad, you have to qualify it. For example, at Elektros I buy something bound for the UK. In the UK, I am VAT registered, so I give Elektros my VAT number and after checking, they deduct the VAT from the purchase and then VAT is charged by the UK when it comes into the country. It is still not clear how it works for individuals who are not VAT registered. In the case of the Norwegian buyer, he still pays VAT......to Norway

Edited by dfk41

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Well it's like lots of things the Civil service do...looks good on paper, doesn't always work in reality. Like the time they fined me for having no road tax on an electric car which doesn't need

Wow, this thread turned into a bag of crap fairly rapidly. I have just spent a while removing all the irrelevant comments on the 3 areas concerned. This thread should be about import taxes for co

Yes yes I know, it was the rules until 31 December 2020, now the UK is completely out in the EU and out of the VAT. cooperation that was valid until 31 December 2020. So now all UK orders from UK i

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That’s my understanding. EU, with regards to VAT, is no different to any third country. So in this aspect, all is consistent. However, EU buyer was paying X for the grinder including VAT. Brexit happened, and now they see an approximate 20% increase on prices due to extra VAT charged by the country where the EU buyer lives. The EU buyer most likely think it’s unfair that, on the 30th of December 2020, he/she was paying X, and, on the 1st of Jan 2021, he is now paying X plus VAT, because the UK buyer still pays X for it including VAT. And we all know the reason, and that’s because Niche is now treating the EU as a third country like any other, and is not making the exception to remove UK VAT from the price for EU purchases (same approach to sales to USA, Canada, Etc). If they did that, then the final price to the EU customer would be therefore roughly the same as the UK as EU countries have a similar VAT rate. 

Niche stuff removed

Edited by DavecUK
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26 minutes ago, dfk41 said:

In order for you to pay no VAT on a purchase made abroad, you have to qualify it. For example, at Elektros I buy something bound for the UK. In the UK, I am VAT registered, so I give Elektros my VAT number and after checking, they deduct the VAT from the purchase and then VAT is charged by the UK when it comes into the country. It is still not clear how it works for individuals who are not VAT registered. In the case of the Norwegian buyer, he still pays VAT......to Norway

Yes yes I know, it was the rules until 31 December 2020, now the UK is completely out in the EU and out of the VAT. cooperation that was valid until 31 December 2020.

So now all UK orders from UK is with no VAT, and you will pay the  VAT to your own country when you import, if you have  VAT number you dont need to pay (I think also in UK) but if you are private you need to pay, thats why you dont pay Vat to Italy when you are overseas customer, exatly like Norway, Hong Kong, USA ordre is from the EU, will EU company not charge the EU VAT for overseas customers 
 

 

 

 

Edited by JackHK
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Yes yes I know, it was the rules until 31 December 2020, now the UK is completely out in the EU and out of the VAT. cooperation that was valid until 31 December 2020.

So now all UK orders from UK is with no VAT, and you will pay the  VAT to your own country when you import, if you have  VAT number you dont need to pay (I think also in UK) but if you are private you need to pay, thats why you dont pay Vat to Italy when you are overseas customer, exatly like Norway, Hong Kong, USA ordre is from the EU, will EU company not charge the EU VAT for overseas customers 
 
 
 
 
Yes but those from EU who bought it and paid it before 31st of December? the price includes the VAT? Because if it did then now for example in Spain they have to pay the Spanish VAT so in the end they pay 2 VAT? Let alone the customs taxes etc...
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Wow, this thread turned into a bag of crap fairly rapidly. I have just spent a while removing all the irrelevant comments on the 3 areas concerned.

This thread should be about import taxes for coffee gear..not about:

  • The BBC
  • Jim davidson
  • Niche Coffee

I let it run for a little but I turn my back and it's gone of the rails. I'm cleaning it up to what I think is relevant. Simply because I am actually interested in UK import taxes for coffee gear..So lets keep it useful!

P.S. This is one of those rare occasions when I may be tempted to break a personal rule. That rule is I don't edit posts (although I will remove quotes), I either hide them or leave them. In this instance rather than hide a post with useful information and crap in it, I may edit them to remove the crap instead of removing them. If you don't like the fact I've done that...just pm me and I will happily remove the edited post completely.

Edited by DavecUK
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Nothing here...

 

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As of 1st January 2021, we left EU and now trade as ‘rest of world’. Think of buying from Spain or Germany as you would have bought from Asia or USA. 
I looked at importing a roaster from Austria. The supplier declined my order because they didn’t know how to do RoW trading. I looked into this: the tariff on Gov.UK website for roasting equipment is 2.7% and then VAT on top at 20% would soon start adding up on a Eur2500 roaster. 

Hope that helps.  

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53 minutes ago, Turnado said:

I looked into this: the tariff on Gov.UK website for roasting equipment is 2.7% and then VAT on top at 20% would soon start adding up on a Eur2500 roaster. 

The cost doesn’t end there - you usually have to pay a charge to the courier for paying those charges on your behalf and they will not deliver the item to you until their charges are paid.

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1 hour ago, Turnado said:

As of 1st January 2021, we left EU and now trade as ‘rest of world’. Think of buying from Spain or Germany as you would have bought from Asia or USA. 
I looked at importing a roaster from Austria. The supplier declined my order because they didn’t know how to do RoW trading. I looked into this: the tariff on Gov.UK website for roasting equipment is 2.7% and then VAT on top at 20% would soon start adding up on a Eur2500 roaster. 

Hope that helps.  

I think that misses the essential point that the exporter from Europe does not have to pay VAT in their own country when exporting, so that there is no double VAT. We probably have to pay the import tariff of 2.7%. However, the UK government have insisted that a direct exporter registers with the HMRC in this country to pay VAT directly, which some may choose not to do because of the increased bureaucracy.  So, it should not cost much more but a) maybe not so much will be available or b) some companies might take the opportunity to increase the price of their product.

There was a second, but independent, discussion about a grinder, but the issue there ultimately seem to have nothing to do with VAT or taxes.

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28 minutes ago, earthflattener said:

We probably have to pay the import tariff of 2.7%.

Do we have to pay such tariffs even if comes from the EU? Didn't the deal remove those? 

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It was the grinder which I wanted to buy in the first place. (New Eureka XL) Interestingly I looked into buying said grinder from Doppio coffee in London and they offered to waive the carraige charge if I paid by bank transfer!

I didn't.

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2 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Do we have to pay such tariffs even if comes from the EU? Didn't the deal remove those? 

I'm assuming it's just VAT? It's confusing though as the stuff I would imagine would come from the EU without VAT?

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I was researching this right after the trade deal with the EU had announced and most websites hadn't been updated yet.

I found this Irish website that explains it quite well. There won't be tariffs, but the idea is that European shops won't charge vat, which we'll then pay in the UK instead. We'll have to wait and see if the European (and British) shops actually do start following it.

 

JJ

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It's taken bloody ages to find it, but I recon if the value is over £135 then you'll get walloped with 20% VAT that you will personally have to pay when you import a "coffee maker" from the EU.

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/8516710000

Quote

Import

The commodity code for importing is 8516710000.

Goods are subject to Value added tax (20.00 %).

I guess maybe the EU retailer should remove any local taxes but imagine they might not do that.

If it's less than £135, then it's up to the EU retailer to collect the tax, but I think I was reading that some retailers of small items have just refused to post to UK as they can't be bothered to sort it out. One sympathises. I shall refrain from any further 'brexit' commentary.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

Edited by sjm85
added some extra links.
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I looked at this document and it seems to confirm my understanding, although I am not sure all EU retailers will have their systems in place to deal with the rules and there may be some other things they have to do.

My understanding is:

There is a 3rd country Duty of 2%, but applied in the absence of any other agreement. We have an agreement with the EU not to add this duty on products that meet the rules of origin. The trade and cooperation agreement makes this point in the preamble on page 20, of it's ridiculous 1499 pages.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2020.444.01.0014.01.ENG

As far as vat goes there is the EU Commissions guidance, which states that after 1 jan 2021 the EU exporter would follow certain processes and VAT would not be charged on goods and that the VAT would be paid in the UK by whoever is purchasing. In the same way as if you purchased good from outside the EU before we left. So EU companies should be charging for goods ex VAT.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/vat-goods_en.pdf

I can imagine that the processes are not well embedded at the moment and there are probably difficulties in getting the various systems to work. I would imagine this would be sorted out fairly rapidly.

Edited by DavecUK
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Just placed an order for a dosing funnel on AliExpress. VAT was added on the checkout page and I paid it (see pop up explanation message below).

Not from the EU, so supposedly unrelated to Brexit, but the change was made at the same time (31/12). Not a speculation anymore - it happened:

2021-01-19_17-04-34.png.e12732f410369802a24cdfc554b437b6.png

 

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@Doram Yes, the above is correct and what is probably currently causing problems for EU retailers systems/processes. Those systems and processes are all designed to either charge VAT or not charge it. Now for values less than 135, they have to charge whatever the UK rate of VAT is or becomes and pay HMRC.

I suspect if that little bit hadn't been in there and a process to be followed to register, then we would have any issues at all. If AliExpress have managed to do it though, one can't imagine the EU retailers will be far behind. It's also why all the European websites I checked either won't ship to the UK, show no products, or show products as out of stock...when you select UK, but that will change and soon I would imagine.

 

I think we also lost the £18.99 small item VAT exemption now as well.

Edited by DavecUK
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3 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

I suspect if that little bit hadn't been in there and a process to be followed to register, then we would have any issues at all. If AliExpress have managed to do it though, one can't imagine the EU retailers will be far behind. It's also why all the European websites I checked either won't ship to the UK, show no products, or show products as out of stock...when you select UK, but that will change and soon I would imagine.

Yep. For AliExpress this means an instant 20% increase in the price for UK buyers. No reason to think it won't be the same with most small things we buy from outside the UK.

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OK. Could some please explain this to me, in simple terms:

- What should happen if I buy a tamper which cost less than £135 from a shop in the the EU? Say it costs £100 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?
- What should happen if I buy a coffee machine which cost more than £135 from a shop in the EU? Say it cost £1000 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?

 

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OK. Could some please explain this to me, in simple terms:
- What should happen if I buy a tamper which cost less than £135 from a shop in the the EU? Say it costs £100 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?
- What should happen if I buy a coffee machine which cost more than £135 from a shop in the EU? Say it cost £1000 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?
 
God knows :)
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39 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

OK. Could some please explain this to me, in simple terms:

- What should happen if I buy a tamper which cost less than £135 from a shop in the the EU? Say it costs £100 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?
- What should happen if I buy a coffee machine which cost more than £135 from a shop in the EU? Say it cost £1000 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?

 

IF £100 is ex vat price  in the country of origin then I understood that the thresholds have been removed for VAT. So you should pay £100 + VAT of 20% on delivery, , that is  now collected at point of sale, below £135 threshold, and paid to UK HMRC directly by the online market place or seller.

Same process for the coffee machine.

Should be no duty/tarifs on the goods.

I ordered a grinder from Germany before Brexit. I am VAT registered so vat was deducted at source on my invoice. Previously I would then have paid no further costs due the the VAT agreements.

As the grinder is only now shipping, even though I paid before Brexit, I will almost certainly be charged VAT and then have to reclaim it. I applied for an EORI number and I hope the system works and it will be a virtual transaction where no money moves it gets logged but netted off ,but I confess I'm flying a bit blind. I may end up paying and reclaiming!

 

Edited by Chainlinephil
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1 minute ago, Chainlinephil said:

IF £100 is ex vat price  in the country of origin then I understood that the thresholds have been removed for VAT. So you should pay £100 + VAT of 20% on delivery, , that is  collected by the courier who will also charge a handling fee for collecting that (£8 - £10)

Same process for the coffee machine, fee from courier is not value related but process so should be similar but fee is carrier specific.

Should be no duty/tarifs on the goods.

I ordered a grinder from Germany before Brexit. I am VAT registered so vat was deducted at source on my invoice. Previously I would then have paid no further costs due the the VAT agreements.

As the grinder is only now shipping, even though I paid before Brexit, I will almost certainly be charged VAT and then have to reclaim it. I applied for an EORI number and I hope the system works and it will be a virtual transaction where no money moves it gets logged but netted off ,but I confess I'm flying a bit blind. I may end up paying and reclaiming!

 

So what's the threshold for? What does the seller or myself have to do differently when buying something for £100 if compared to something for £1000?

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.57

20 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

OK. Could some please explain this to me, in simple terms:

1. - What should happen if I buy a tamper which cost less than £135 from a shop in the the EU? Say it costs £100 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?
- What should happen if I buy a coffee machine which cost more than £135 from a shop in the EU? Say it cost £1000 - How much will I pay by the time it gets to me?

 

If the cost is less than £135 including EU VAT (for that country) and UK Vat remains at 20%.... then you pay the cost you see minus or plus the difference in the VAT rate compared to our country. So if a European store displays the product price inc VAT, it depends on the country. e.g. For the same item assuming the same ex vat price of 111.57.

£111.57 +23.43 spanish VAT @21% = in Spain it would cost £135

£111.57 +24.55 Italian VAT @22% = in Italy it would cost £136.12

£111.57 +21.20 german VAT @19% = in Germany it would cost £132.77

After Spanish, Italian or German company applying UK VAT of 20% and paying it back to HMRC= 112.5 + 22.32 = £133.89 (your cost in UK in all cases)

For a coffee machine of £1000 inc VAT, it will be devatted at the countries prevailing rate and then you pay 20% UK VAT on the ex VAT amount.

If you buy from different countries, if the machine is the same inc VAT price at their local VAT rate:

£1000 Spanish VAT @21% = 826.45 ex VAT

£1000 Italian VAT @22% =  £819.56 ex VAT

£1000 German VAT @19% = £840.34 ex VAT

In the above case the machine would be cheaper from Italy, because they had the highest local VAT rate and most expensive from germany who had the lowest local VAT rate

 

It's all quite clear really

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