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Upgrading from a Sage Oracle


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I have had the above machine for nearly 3/4 years and am thinking its time for a change.  

 

I love the look of Rocket but wonder if any members can recommend them or something else?

The Oracle is a semi automatic machine with a grinder and I think it's time I started to dable a little with settings and more than just pressing a button.

Anyone got a rocket or something or has graduated from an Oracle?

 

Thanks you.

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Do you have any specific wants or needs? for example -

  • Dual boiler or Hx
  • Rapid warm up
  • Minimal maintenance
  • Vibration or rotary pump

so on....

Do you have a budget in mind?

What do you mainly drink? Espresso, flat white etc.

David

 

 

www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

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I recently upgraded from an Oracle to an ACS Vesuvius which I bought from a member of the forum. 
 

the biggest thing you will find with a decent machine and grinder is consistency. I found with the oracle it made excellent coffee but I’d waste probably 40% of shots because it just varied so much. 
 

now with a decent setup I find I just dial a new bean in once, and maybe make tiny adjustments as the beans age. 
 

I would say grinder is more important than machine. You could still get great shots and consistency from your oracle with an an excellent grinder. 

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I recently upgraded from an Oracle to an ACS Vesuvius which I bought from a member of the forum. 
 
the biggest thing you will find with a decent machine and grinder is consistency. I found with the oracle it made excellent coffee but I’d waste probably 40% of shots because it just varied so much. 
 
now with a decent setup I find I just dial a new bean in once, and maybe make tiny adjustments as the beans age. 
 
I would say grinder is more important than machine. You could still get great shots and consistency from your oracle with an an excellent grinder. 
That's really surprising, i would expect most of the variability to come from human error which the oracle removes basically all of - kind of its selling point. If I'm remembering correctly it does have a fairly crappy burr set which might negate this but still
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2 hours ago, tobyjrn6 said:

That's really surprising, i would expect most of the variability to come from human error which the oracle removes basically all of - kind of its selling point. If I'm remembering correctly it does have a fairly crappy burr set which might negate this but still

Yeah you would expect so. The sage was very temperamental. It’s more the grinding, dosing and tamping more than anything else. 
 

I could pull two shots the same. One would come out with more than double the volume of the next! 

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Thanks for these comments, that's really useful. I have noticed a huge variation in shots and thought maybe it was just my machine! The first shot is never the same as the second and Im always having to throw some out - I thought it was the machine but I guess you are right, it must be the grinder.

What grinder would you recommend? I don't mind paying a bit more for one as I don't want to then have to upgrade the grinder again.

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17 hours ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Do you have any specific wants or needs? for example -

  • Dual boiler or Hx
  • Rapid warm up
  • Minimal maintenance
  • Vibration or rotary pump

so on....

Do you have a budget in mind?

What do you mainly drink? Espresso, flat white etc.

David

 

 

David

Probably a dual but basically anything thats a step up from the sage oracle. I mainly drink espresso and capacino. Not sure what the difference between vibration or rotary pump means.

Chris

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39 minutes ago, Geezercdg said:

Thanks for these comments, that's really useful. I have noticed a huge variation in shots and thought maybe it was just my machine! The first shot is never the same as the second and Im always having to throw some out - I thought it was the machine but I guess you are right, it must be the grinder.

What grinder would you recommend? I don't mind paying a bit more for one as I don't want to then have to upgrade the grinder again.

It seems most people recommend the eureka mignon as the entry level grinder for espresso. I ended up doing a lot of searching and bough a commercial machine, Mazzer major, and modded it slightly to make it a single doser. 

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Oracle espresso machine is a good ones the grinder is rubbish., Invest in a grinder to pair with the oracle for now , get a manual tamper and baskets to go With it

With a good grinder will make great espresso. You can then think about what the net machine will be 

 

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1 hour ago, Geezercdg said:

David

Probably a dual but basically anything thats a step up from the sage oracle. I mainly drink espresso and capacino. Not sure what the difference between vibration or rotary pump means.

Chris

Have you used  an oracle ? It is a sage db with a grinder boiled on to it , nothing wrong with the machine its the grinder thats the weak link 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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3 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

Have you used  an oracle ? It is a sage db with a grinder boiled on to it , nothing wrong with the machine its the grinder thats the weak link 

Yes, as mentioned I have had an Oracle for about 4 years. Looks like I need a decent grinder, what would you recommend?

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29 minutes ago, Karka said:

It seems most people recommend the eureka mignon as the entry level grinder for espresso. I ended up doing a lot of searching and bough a commercial machine, Mazzer major, and modded it slightly to make it a single doser. 

Thanks Karka. Looks like a great machine. Would you recomend it? This was about how much I want to spend. How did you mod it?

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1 minute ago, Geezercdg said:

Yes, as mentioned I have had an Oracle for about 4 years. Looks like I need a decent grinder, what would you recommend?

 

Before taking any real recommendations what do you want from it , otherwise people will just recommend wha they have. 

Change beans a lot and single dose ? 

Run one blend dumped in a hopper ? then think about space and money you want spend and people can recommend within these criteria 

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49 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

 

Before taking any real recommendations what do you want from it , otherwise people will just recommend wha they have. 

Change beans a lot and single dose ? 

Run one blend dumped in a hopper ? then think about space and money you want spend and people can recommend within these criteria 

Thanks Mrboots2u. I change beans every few weeks. I mainly do espresso, want to be able to use a portafilter and have about £650 to spend.What do you think?

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5 minutes ago, Geezercdg said:

Thanks Mrboots2u. I change beans every few weeks. I mainly do espresso, want to be able to use a portafilter and have about £650 to spend.What do you think?

Personally I’d wait for a niche zero. I saw a lot about it but never really understood why it’s so in demand. 
 

if you’re just doing espresso and espresso only, for sure go for a mazzer and mod it. It’s real actively cheap and simple to do. Retention of old grinds is a problem for most commercial grinders. The mazzer with the modifications leaves about 0.5g of old grounds each time, so not too bad. 
 

the issue with these types of commercial grinders really is if you need to change the grind coarseness for say a v60 or Chemex. I want to do pour over coffees also but don’t want the hassle of having to adjust my grind size as it means dialling in and wasting more beans. I’ve bought an aerspeed hand grinder for the v60 coffees but in an ideal world I’d have one grinder such as the niche zero where you can change the grind size easily and with very little retention. 

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33 minutes ago, Karka said:

...The mazzer with the modifications leaves about 0.5g of old grounds each time, so not too bad....

If you fit/do the Daniel Wong modification/kit then it's even less than that...0.1g or less on a good day....the down-side though is the the D.Wong kit don't come cheap; so this has to be factured into your end-budget.

Fides Nemo

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6 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

If you fit/do the Daniel Wong modification/kit then it's even less than that...0.1g or less on a good day....the down-side though is the the D.Wong kit don't come cheap; so this has to be factured into your end-budget.

Yeah I have the David wong kit. Wasn’t overly expensive and does the job. On a v.good day I’d get 0.1g retention. So I usually over dose 0.5g just so there is less faffing about trying to get the right dose. 

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28 minutes ago, Geezercdg said:

Where do I get the david wong kit?

https://home-doserless.com
 

with dhl shipping I received it in 3 days from Taiwan. 
 

If I was looking at grinders again, I’d probably look for something that was on demand. If time is important to you and you don’t want to weigh your beans for EVERY shot, that’s the way forward. Looking at the video review for the mignon XL, with only 0.2g of retention, it looks excellent. 
 

if however you have no problem single dosing and weighing each time, mazzer’s can be picked up cheaply, with a small modification you have an excellent grinder. 

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