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Steam pressure drops off very rapidly- Profitec700


cogent1
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I've got a recent (Jun 2020) Profitec 700.  When warming up, The steam temperature gets to 133, the pressure to 3 Bar. As soon as the wand is opened, the pressure drops immediately to 2 Bar. The temperature drops to 120 after 20 seconds. It takes over 30 seconds to steam the milk to the right temperature.  Isn't this rather slow for a dual boiler machine?  Or am I being picky?

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133C is only 2 bar not 3 bar. So something is not right...wondering if you have a sticky vacuum breaker.

If you crack the steam wand, purge some reasonable amount of steam, then close it again, what does the pressure rise back up to?

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Do you steam right away after heating up? On my ECM Synchronika, I find my steam boiler drops a fair amount of pressure quickly that way (I'm using the OEM four hole tip, so much more steam coming out compared to the rather slow two hole tip). I've found that after initial heat up of the steam boiler, releasing a good amount of steam or dispensing water through the tap really helps on minimizing the pressure drop when steaming milk after the pressure has come back up. My usual routine is therefore to use some hot water through the tap to pre-heat my cup, and letting the pressure rise back up again before steaming. I usually dispense enough water to let the boiler refill, and then letting it heat back up. No problems with refilling during steaming either 😉

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15 hours ago, cogent1 said:

It just doesn't seem to be a very powerful burst of steam for a dedicated steam boiler.

I've found this too with the 2 hole tip. I changed to 4-hole and it's a game changer (you're right @richwade80). I dispense a good amount of steam to clear the system before I steam the milk. Like @Hrti, I've not had any issues.

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I've found this too with the 2 hole tip. I changed to 4-hole and it's a game changer (you're right @richwade80). I dispense a good amount of steam to clear the system before I steam the milk. Like @Hrti, I've not had any issues.

I timed my steaming today. I don’t get out much... but nobody does these days. 20s on the LR for a latte’s worth. It has a four hole tip, but reasonably small holes

My old ECM would be quicker with the four hole ‘heavy calibre’ tip. Probably 15s. When I first tried that tip, I couldn’t steam sh*t. But eventually it was amazing. Someone on here has a five hole... the blunderbuss!


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On the humble Elizabeth with a 2 hole steam tip. Boiler temp at 140C.... with a boiler 3x smaller than the Pro-700.

cold milk out of the fridge, into the jug, so approx. 6C or so:

250ml:  approx. 35s.

150ml: approx. 20s.

I used to own a Pro-700 a few years back, so wasn’t the new version. If I remember correctly, it was a beast. It didn’t take long to steam at all.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Thanks for all the advice. I have a 2-hole tip. I always purge the wand well before steaming.  I purged before steaming this morning, waited for the pressure to stabilise at 1.9 bar and then steamed 200cc of milk at 10c: The pressure immediately dropped to 1.4 bar and stayed in that region throughout. It took 35 seconds to reach 60c, by which time the temperature had dropped to 126.  It took 45 seconds for the pressure to gradually recover to 1.9 bar .

 

I upgraded from an ECM Barista, where the steam pressure never went above 1.5 bar and which took about the same time to reach the correct temp. I thought that a dedicated steam boiler would perform better and I believe when I first got the 700 that it had much more oomph.  I'm not a speed fiend, but I'd like the process to be over in 20 seconds or so. Perhaps a 4 hole tip is the answer, though I feel that the machine is actually underperforming in this respect and the 4 hole solution should not be necessary....

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I found a massive difference between a 2 and 4 hole steam tip, it takes less then half the time. In truth though it's too much for a small amount of milk. I've a 250ml pitcher I use for milk for one in a 150ml cup and a 500ml pitcher I use for 2. Ideally I would use the 2H with the 250ml and 4H with the 500ml. I can't also be bothered to change and accept that my 250ml Milk with the 4 hole is going to be fluffy!. 

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Strangely enough tripleshot, because I have a benign tremor in my arm, I can't hold the jug suspended, so I use your technique. I rest the jug on the smaller grid that comes with the Profitec and position the wand just on the surface of the milk. I get good silky foam, so that's not a problem. Perhaps I should tolerate the slightly long steaming time. But on balance, I think I'll try the 4-hole option.  Is there such a thing as a 3-holer?

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  • 1 month later...

I’m not sure how much this is covered elsewhere but read and have proven that my own Profitec steam performance is much to do with the timing of the PID and only one boiler permitted to be in at a time.

I have tested now (after a year of slight frustration) and when pulling a shot, I then steam milk. The issue is that the machine has prioritised the brew boiler and spends 10-15 seconds or so heating it back to 95 in my case. 
 

if steaming during this time, the performance quickly falls off. The reason - no heat boost. If I wait and confirm the brew boiler has stopped, the steam performance is much better. I’m going to look into whether both boilers can be allowed on at the same time (current load I assume)

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5 minutes ago, M5Sime said:

I’m going to look into whether both boilers can be allowed on at the same time (current load I assume)

If you have newish model - I think you do - don’t waste your time. It used to be configurable, and such option did exist, but from reading here it seems that option has been removed completely - I have no idea why. 

I think this was the F02 setting in the advanced configuration, setting to value “5” which has since been removed.

You could try tweaking the PID values to optimise recovery. I’m not sure how wonderful those are, but worth a punt.

https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004229214-Profitec-Pro-700-Updated-PID-Settings


Make sure E1 is set to 14 - or whatever your current value is set to - if you are operating in Celsius. That’s the difference in temperature between group and boiler.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Late to the reply.. I have checked and naturally have no f.02 mode of 5 available. Checked the power draw for each boiler on UK mains. 1.1kw each. So effectively both boilers could be on at the same time on a 13A connection. Guess no way to mod this?

I might future mod to provide indicator lights for each boiler. At least that way I clearly know when I can steam. 

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26 minutes ago, M5Sime said:

At least that way I clearly know when I can steam.

I might be talking totally rubbish here... But doesn't a dot (looks like a decimal separator but it isn't really) in the PID display blinks when the heating element is on? I might be talking nonsense, It's been a few years since I sold my Pro-700. 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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38 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

I might be talking totally rubbish here... But doesn't a dot (looks like a decimal separator but it isn't really) in the PID display blinks when the heating element is on? I might be talking nonsense, It's been a few years since I sold my Pro-700. 

You are not talking nonsense.. it tends to flash often and there is a decimal per boiler linked to the temp changing between the two boilers. Pretty hard to track though and I think blinks even if not heating. Need to confirm that.. 

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