Jump to content
IGNORED

Anyone know anything about this generic unbranded espresso machine on eBay


Recommended Posts

It looks ok!

Set at 9bar, which is rare!  

58mm grouphead.

420ml brass boiler.

Pressure gauge (which doesn't seem to display any numbers)

It's like someone has read the forum and put everything we want into an entry level machine - but I'm guessing it's not very good.?  Looks a little bit like an Australian machine I saw a while ago - Sunbeam or something?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Espresso-coffee-machine-Cappuccino-Machines-9-bar-Stainless-Steel-1200-W/293405990812?hash=item44505c1f9c:g:7NMAAOSwqn1eDu2m

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chinese ???

“Rincewind wasn't used to people being pleased to see him. It was unnatural, and boded no good. These people were not only cheering, they were throwing flowers and hats. The hats were made out of stone, but the thought was there.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

Chinese ???

When I was a kid, I remember no one wanted anything made in Japan....funny how the world has changed.

  • Like 1

Nothing here...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are a few (only just) years older than me (53) but as a teenager the Japs were just starting to make motorbikes that didn't leak oil everywhere (Triumph i'm looking at you), radio's (transistorised version) that left the likes of Pye standing, black-boxes (transceivers) and HI-FI; all the stuff i loved lol.  Whereas my dad,grandad and some of my older mates hated with a passion anything that was Japanese.

Me i can't stand Chinese copied stuff....it's just utter shite IMO....they "water-down" everything (materials) that is some kind of a resource....e.g. their cardboard/paper/bubble-wrap is just so watered down it almost dissolves in your hands; the doping levels of Silicon in their semiconductors i.e. a diode for example is so crap it's "bordering on scary". I believe the Chinese are better at copying rather than innovating....this guy i came across whilst doing my 3d-printer research has a Youtube channel; the video's are "meh" (as my daughter's would say) but the "comments" (especially the last dozen or so) sum's it up for me and...he also disses his own country (in the comments) which i was shocked at; but he does say it like it is....loath him/hate him he speaks his mind (click to read/watch if you must)

Downside is that Chinese stuff is "taking over" whether we like it/not....YMMV.

  • Like 3

“Rincewind wasn't used to people being pleased to see him. It was unnatural, and boded no good. These people were not only cheering, they were throwing flowers and hats. The hats were made out of stone, but the thought was there.”

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can remember when Japanese stuff was regarded with amused condescension (paper cocktail umbrellas, oddly shaped little motorcycles, Nissan/Datsuns that looked like a lunatics rendition of a Morris Minor 1000, that sort of thing). Then, as Rumpelstiltskin observed, things changed. Quality just kept improving, to the stage where now I wouldn't seriously consider a non-Japanese vehicle or electronics if budget and total reliability were front of house.

Fortunately this time around Marketplace domination seems their only goal.

Unfortunately the Chinese manufacturers have quickly learnt to produce goods - as demanded by their greedy Western clients - (make 'em cheap and stack 'em high, for as much profit as possible) and the products made available are mostly, quite frankly, crap. They are capable of much, much more but we don't want to pay for what is perceived as a low-status, low value manufacturer.

And by my reading of the auspices, the intentions of the PRC ruling regime do not seem to be developing quite as benignly as their neighbours. Not really liking what I'm observing and with a bit of an appreciation of history, kind of glad I'm a really old geezer.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think to be fair to the Chinese, not everything they produce is poor, they can produce great quality stuff (especially when they make it for some of the big brands) but they can also produce very shoddy products. If the Chinese government ever stamps out the shoddy stuff...then the world needs to watch out.

The Chinese are a clever, resourceful, hard-working, dexterous and increasingly well-educated. I think we underestimate their manufacturing capability at our peril....we must ensure we don't stand still while they are improving. For now many of the coffee machines produced for sale predominantly in China, may not be up to our standards.....I suspect one day that will change in the lower end of the prosumer market.

  • Like 10

Nothing here...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They (PRC-based manufacturing) make the items to the standards set by the price, so if you want good quality they can do it, if you want dirt cheap they can do it, people here in the UK don't seem to realise they two are to some extent mutually exclusive if you include design etc in the costs.

 

Anyway, to that coffee machine that @RobbieTheTruth. asked about. I couldn't find any photos of its internal etc, so it's going to be pretty much impossible to guess what flaws it may have (OK, maybe I've made an assumption as to whether it's any good or not). Even then, seeing the boiler size, seeing the way its laid out etc could give some insight, but until the actual components are examined and coffee is made, it's all guess work as to whether its any good.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, DavecUK said:

When I was a kid, I remember no one wanted anything made in Japan....funny how the world has changed.

My grandfather almost certainly had an aversion to Japanese products, which is understandable given that he had to leave Singapore in a hurry in 1942, and then swim for his life when the ship he was on came under attack from Japanese bombers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although the item description says 'Unbranded' a quick search finds the same machine for sale elsewhere under an ITOP brand. Further searching finds this website, with an intriguing mix of machines, including a couple of other ITOPs, for sale:

https://beanaroundcoffees.co.uk/collections/coffee-machines

- It's clearly a startup company (incorporated July 2020, according to Companies House)

- the reviews on the site all seem to be 5 stars

- there is only an office accommodation address available (so where are they "lovingly roasting" all those over-priced beans available elsewhere on the site??)

In other words, everything screams "DON'T GO THERE".

However, they do have a Customer Support chat facility, and look ready to accept email requests, so perhaps one of the experts here would like to make some enquiries? e.g.

- do they intend to add the IT-MT813 to their line-up?

- would they consider sending a sample of one/both of the ITOP machines they do stock for a review?

might be good for a laugh ...

Edited by Stox
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/12/2020 at 02:10, Rumpelstiltskin said:

Downside is that Chinese stuff is "taking over" whether we like it/not....YMMV.

They only take over because people buy them. They are the modern day Amstrad. 

 

On 09/12/2020 at 12:38, DavecUK said:

I think we underestimate their manufacturing capability at our peril....we must ensure we don't stand still while they are improving.

We didn't learn with the Japanese and we won't learn with the Chinese either. Why because of the greedy capitalist corporations whom want to make things as cheaply as possible and sell them for as much as possible and we like to buy then as cheaply as possible. 

I personally would rather pay for quality than not. I'd rather ay £500 for a Silva that £300 for its knock off counterpart. Remember the following.

"The Bitterness Of Poor Quality Remains Long After The Euphoria Of Cheap Price Has Evaporated"

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Chinese have been the most shameless and blatant Intellectual Property rip off artists I can recall in quite a long time.   And once upon a time there was a lot of outcry about it...which kinda died out over time....whatever happened there?

Western companies setting up high tech manufacturing in their own country must have been like all their Christmases (or local equivalent, lol) coming at once.

Now they've attained technological equivalency with the West and amongst other endeavours, are reaching out into any potentially profitable market niche they see...heigh ho!

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if John Ruskin was thinking of the Chinese when he said;

"It's unwise to pay too much...but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Hi ther @Stox

I am one of the founders of Bean Around Coffees.

Yes we launched last year and yes our offices are in London but we actually have a roastery in Yorkshire that roasts all of our coffees to perfection for us. 

The ITOP machines are actually pretty good for the price of them. They aren't meant to be the best of the best but do make a decent cup of coffee. 

And yes we have a live chat facility and a support ticketing system for all customer enquiries.

If any of you have any questions please feel free to ask away to me directly or email [email protected] we aren't some shady company trying to fleece people out of there money. 

We love coffee and this was set up as a passion project. 

Also if you would like to sample some of our coffee, also ask away, I'd be more than happy to send out some samples. 

Have a great day.

Dan

Bean Around Coffees 

On 10/12/2020 at 15:04, Stox said:

Although the item description says 'Unbranded' a quick search finds the same machine for sale elsewhere under an ITOP brand. Further searching finds this website, with an intriguing mix of machines, including a couple of other ITOPs, for sale:

https://beanaroundcoffees.co.uk/collections/coffee-machines

- It's clearly a startup company (incorporated July 2020, according to Companies House)

- the reviews on the site all seem to be 5 stars

- there is only an office accommodation address available (so where are they "lovingly roasting" all those over-priced beans available elsewhere on the site??)

In other words, everything screams "DON'T GO THERE".

However, they do have a Customer Support chat facility, and look ready to accept email requests, so perhaps one of the experts here would like to make some enquiries? e.g.

- do they intend to add the IT-MT813 to their line-up?

- would they consider sending a sample of one/both of the ITOP machines they do stock for a review?

might be good for a laugh ...

 

Edited by Bean Around Coffees
Added Reply
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bean Around Coffees said:

...If any of you have any questions please feel free to ask away to me directly..

Hi Dan, where is your ITOP machine made ?

“Rincewind wasn't used to people being pleased to see him. It was unnatural, and boded no good. These people were not only cheering, they were throwing flowers and hats. The hats were made out of stone, but the thought was there.”

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dan,

Thanks for responding. Whilst I wouldn't want to put a spoiler on someone's business there really are some issues with the content on your website. In particular, the fact that all the equipment reviews give a 5 star rating, and when you scroll through the espresso machine ratings you find that 'customers who purchased this machine also purchased these other products' - then showing the other two espresso machines that you sell. I am struggling to believe that these are all genuine customers, and that there are people out there who would purchase all three machines ranging in price from around £200 to nearly £4000. These are major red flags for me.

My other questions relating to the equipment on your website would be:

Are you supplying machines from stock, or drop-shipping?

Are you able to undertake repairs in-house? Do you keep a stock of spare parts and consumables? These questions, and @Rumpelstiltskin's above are particularly important in assessing the value of any warranty you may be supplying with equipment because people don't want to be waiting for extended periods while their machine is shipped to and from an overseas manufacturer. It is even more important given that you appear to be the sole UK based supplier for the ITOP machines. If you look at the equipment retailer reviews elsewhere on this site you will find that this is a common major problem found with certain other retailers.

Edited by Stox
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, RDC8 said:

@Bean Around Coffees You might want to check spellings on your site. Apparently one of the key features of your Anfim BEST grinders is : "electronic shit timer for single & double espress"

I for one, am excited to see this disruptive new innovation in the Espresso space. Take that Decent!

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the cheaper on has 20Bar of pressure 🤔  but the more expensive one only 15?
 

hmmmm better off with the £30 Lidl machine at least you know the warranty is good.....

Edited by HDAV
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/12/2020 at 12:38, DavecUK said:

I think to be fair to the Chinese, not everything they produce is poor, they can produce great quality stuff (especially when they make it for some of the big brands) but they can also produce very shoddy products. If the Chinese government ever stamps out the shoddy stuff...then the world needs to watch out.

The Chinese are a clever, resourceful, hard-working, dexterous and increasingly well-educated. I think we underestimate their manufacturing capability at our peril....we must ensure we don't stand still while they are improving. For now many of the coffee machines produced for sale predominantly in China, may not be up to our standards.....I suspect one day that will change in the lower end of the prosumer market.

 

On 15/12/2020 at 12:49, Norvin said:

I wonder if John Ruskin was thinking of the Chinese when he said;

"It's unwise to pay too much...but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

I think that those are good examples of summing up my views. The Chinese are perfectly capable of very high quality manufacturing, but are also capable of (and commonly do) produce cheap garbage that either rips off expensive brands, or completely abuses trademark and even product safety laws. Or both  And frankly, we rather get what we deserve. I once made a mistake buying a "cheap" cradle for a handheld computer. It worked briefly, then fried the computer. Fortunately, it was about 3 years old (the computer, not the cradle) and due for replacement anyway. Unlike a friend who had his three grand camera fried not once, or even twice, but three times before he realised itwas a rip-off battery doing it.

I rather rely on an old adage - fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. I learned my lesson with that cradle, and luckily, it wasn't too expensive. It isn't a mistake I will make again. I have no idea whether either the machine or company involved are reputable, but personally, am not interested enough to be willing to risk it. I prefer just to rely on a known and reputable brand. Why? If nothing else, it avoids, as much as is possible, the risk of a load of hassle and wasted time sorting out problems that may arise, and I value my time highly enough to not wish to waste it, or spend it on avoidable risks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • About
    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 24000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:
    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard. Please read our Terms of Use. We stick by them, existing members please familiarise yourselves with them.


    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Click Here To Buy Advertising Space 
    £100 p/m when paid yearly, up-to: 690000 banner impressions per month!


    Donate / Sponsor

    Get Your Supporter Badge Today (per year)

    image.png



    Coffee Forums Logo
     

×
×
  • Create New...