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Since being in lock down from March I have saved a considerable sum so I am very tempted to buy a new Silvia Pro.

At present I'm using a PID controlled Gaggia Clasic, anyone out there that has bought the new Silvia Pro and found that it's not as good as they first thought.

ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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16 minutes ago, mr-bean said:

Since being in lock down from March I have saved a considerable sum so I am very tempted to buy a new Silvia Pro.

At present I'm using a PID controlled Gaggia Clasic, anyone out there that has bought the new Silvia Pro and found that it's not as good as they first thought.

I have seen few introduction videos of the Pro and it really disappointed me, unfortunately. I'm a big fan of Silvia, I have had mine for the past six and half years and it is very solid machine, but in my opinion the Pro is just overpriced for what it offers.

Rancilio Silvia V3 & Niche Zero

Melitta TS Smart

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I have seen few introduction videos of the Pro and it really disappointed me, unfortunately. I'm a big fan of Silvia, I have had mine for the past six and half years and it is very solid machine, but in my opinion the Pro is just overpriced for what it offers.
I will likely have it by the end of the month and will put a detailed review here. I am a big fun to too and the launching price until December is quite attractive in Spain, 1120€. I don't expect miracles from her but I like it, it has a PID, it's a DB and that's enough for me :)

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1 hour ago, L2en said:

I have seen few introduction videos of the Pro and it really disappointed me, unfortunately. I'm a big fan of Silvia, I have had mine for the past six and half years and it is very solid machine, but in my opinion the Pro is just overpriced for what it offers.

I totally agree with this. To pay top dollar for a machine which is just a complete afterthought... no thanks. There are far better machines in that class for a similar price, namely Profitec 300 and Lelit Elizabeth. 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Personally, I think you would be far better off with the Lelit Elizabeth. I don't know the spanish company, but I am sure you might be able to get it even cheaper in spain or a neighbouring company. So price wise it's comparable and all stainless (I don't know if the Silvia pro is).

 

https://www.ecafe.es/tienda/cafeteras/329-lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-8009437000203.html?search_query=lelit+elizabeth&results=133

 

 

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1 hour ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

What draws you to it? The price seems quite hefty compared to the competition to me.

Dual boilers and PID's will be the way I want to go, I had a Sage DB 2 years ago that went wrong out of warranty and couldn't buy the parts as Sage was the only repairer and they wanted a small fortune what with collection & return, so I sold it for spares and at that time a Gaggia Classic was all I could afford. I want a machine I can repair as it gets older and having looked at several video's for the Pro I liked the internal layout.

I am also interested in an Lelit Eliz PL92T as suggested by DavecUK and am in the process of watching some video's.

 

ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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19 minutes ago, mr-bean said:

Dual boilers and PID's will be the way I want to go, I had a Sage DB 2 years ago that went wrong out of warranty and couldn't buy the parts as Sage was the only repairer and they wanted a small fortune what with collection & return, so I sold it for spares and at that time a Gaggia Classic was all I could afford. I want a machine I can repair as it gets older and having looked at several video's for the Pro I liked the internal layout.

I am also interested in an Lelit Eliz PL92T as suggested by DavecUK and am in the process of watching some video's.

 

The Lelit is worth checking out for sure. Another one that ticks the DB + PID in the same price bracket is the ACS Minima we have in stock, there is a DaveC review on it too - Link

You could add flow control to the Minima in the future as a nice upgrade. It has the largest boilers of the bunch by a decent margin too.

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

ACS Minima now in stock!

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Personally, I think you would be far better off with the Lelit Elizabeth. I don't know the spanish company, but I am sure you might be able to get it even cheaper in spain or a neighbouring company. So price wise it's comparable and all stainless (I don't know if the Silvia pro is).
 
https://www.ecafe.es/tienda/cafeteras/329-lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-8009437000203.html?search_query=lelit+elizabeth&results=133
 
 
It is all stainles and the best price here for the Elizabeth is 1190€. I know Elizabeth may offer more for the same money but I had Silvias since 2011 and grew find of it solid construction and capabilities. There is always a bit of subjectivity when you buy a coffee machine. To be honest I like more the look of the Silvia and not convinced that Elizabeth offers much more, maybe more, but "much" more not sure. I am curious anyway to know@MediumRoastSteam what exactly are Elizabeth advantages over Silvia. Bear in mind that very few people have the Silvia, there are no in depth reviews yet etc so it could be tricky to judge it.


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15 minutes ago, profesor_historia said:

It is all stainles and the best price here for the Elizabeth is 1190€. I know Elizabeth may offer more for the same money but I had Silvias since 2011 and grew find of it solid construction and capabilities. There is always a bit of subjectivity when you buy a coffee machine. To be honest I like more the look of the Silvia and not convinced that Elizabeth offers much more, maybe more, but "much" more not sure. I am curious anyway to know@MediumRoastSteam what exactly are Elizabeth advantages over Silvia. Bear in mind that very few people have the Silvia, there are no in depth reviews yet etc so it could be tricky to judge it.


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I know you are a fan Professor! There all good. I’m just saying aí wouldn’t pay for it, nor would I pay for the Profitec. I’m just annoyed Rancilio didn’t do anything innovative. They just put old tech into a bigger box. 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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I know you are a fan Professor! There all good. I’m just saying aí wouldn’t pay for it, nor would I pay for the Profitec. I’m just annoyed Rancilio didn’t do anything innovative. They just put old tech into a bigger box. 
It's true, completely agree. They should have put a PID in the V6 and it would have been a selling success no doubt. But well, in the end I imagine that wanted to kill to birds with a stone and be in line with the other DB machines, only time will tell. For the moment I am itching to have it in my house for once and start playing with it, it will be my first PID machine :).

I am also curious about the new V50 grinder but they couldn't give me a price yet or an estimated launching date.

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I have just looked at Lelit & Silvia video's as far as layout goes from an engineers point the Silvia Pro has a good layout with all components easy to get at with copper and SS braided piping, whereas the Lelit has such a mess as far as cable management goes with lots of plastic pipes and cables, it looks a mess.

A good Silvia Pro video to see what I mean is 1st-line Equipment.

 

ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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If the Silvia ticks the boxes for you then go for it.

Rancilio know how to put a machine together, I look after a couple for commercial clients and they are solid machines. I think they are a touch on the expensive side personally but if you are happy with the price then I have no doubt it will serve you very well indeed.

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

ACS Minima now in stock!

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Just to add - if you appreciate lovely engineering and layout then I would take a good look at the Profitec 300. Not exactly a looker (and that is being kind) but Profitec machines are extremely well laid out and made in my experience.

www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Espresso Machines | Grinders | Accessories

ACS Minima now in stock!

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4 hours ago, mr-bean said:

Since being in lock down from March I have saved a considerable sum so I am very tempted to buy a new Silvia Pro.

I loved the Silvia. Had one for over 21 years - most of the time with one of the earlier V1's, then a few months with the V6. The Silvia is a super reliable machine, and if anything goes wrong - a handy person can usually sort it out, so they can have a very long life (and I didn't even spoil her with fancy soft water, just fed her with hard tap water and descaled when needed). When I replaced a V1 with a V6, I was surprised (disappointed?) to see that actually not much has changed - they were essentially the same thing. So I completely understand why Silvia owners would think the next step must be the Silvia Pro - nothing else would be as solid and reliable, and why change a winning horse? (this is what I thought, anyway).

However, the Silvia pro is more than double the price of Silvia and more than 20 years newer, so I also think it is fair to expect something extra on top of the long overdue PID, and the second boiler. Looking at the video from 1st Line (and other sources), the build, design and components look very familiar and taken directly from the Silvia. Most striking is that they kept the steel base of the machine, which tends to rust on the Silvia when the 3-way squirts water into the tray (and some of it goes behind it). A much more minor thing, but maybe symbolic, is that they include a rubber backflushing disk instead of a metal blind basket. It's a tiny detail, but Rancilio - come on.

Moving from the Silvia, I feared other machines just won't feel as good. I was therefore glad to find that not only the Lelit Mara X didn't feel inferior to Rancilio's built, it actually felt much better (as it should, for almost double the price). Looking at the box, the accessories and most importantly the machine and technology, it just feels that Lelit tried harder (at least in the Mara X, I don't have experience with their other machines). I am in no way saying the Silvia Pro won't make good coffee or last a long time. I am sure it will, but I think I can finally say that if I were looking for a double boiler machine for the price of the Silvia Pro, I would probably buy something else. At least for me, there is life after Silvia. 🙂

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I loved the Silvia. Had one for over 21 years - most of the time with one of the earlier V1's, then a few months with the V6. The Silvia is a super reliable machine, and if anything goes wrong - a handy person can usually sort it out, so they can have a very long life (and I didn't even spoil her with fancy soft water, just fed her with hard tap water and descaled when needed). When I replaced a V1 with a V6, I was surprised (disappointed?) to see that actually not much has changed - they were essentially the same thing. So I completely understand why Silvia owners would think the next step must be the Silvia Pro - nothing else would be as solid and reliable, and why change a winning horse? (this is what I thought, anyway).
However, the Silvia pro is more than double the price of Silvia and more than 20 years newer, so I also think it is fair to expect something extra on top of the long overdue PID, and the second boiler. Looking at the video from 1st Line (and other sources), the build, design and components look very familiar and taken directly from the Silvia. Most striking is that they kept the steel base of the machine, which tends to rust on the Silvia when the 3-way squirts water into the tray (and some of it goes behind it). A much more minor thing, but maybe symbolic, is that they include a rubber backflushing disk instead of a metal blind basket. It's a tiny detail, but Rancilio - come on.
Moving from the Silvia, I feared other machines just won't feel as good. I was therefore glad to find that not only the Lelit Mara X didn't feel inferior to Rancilio's built, it actually felt much better (as it should, for almost double the price). Looking at the box, the accessories and most importantly the machine and technology, it just feels that Lelit tried harder (at least in the Mara X, I don't have experience with their other machines). I am in no way saying the Silvia Pro won't make good coffee or last a long time. I am sure it will, but I think I can finally say that if I were looking for a double boiler machine for the price of the Silvia Pro, I would probably buy something else. At least for me, there is life after Silvia.
I understand you, I am not trying to marketing the Pro, I don't have second thoughts and I am sure I will be happy with it. Besides I wanted a machine with the steam wand to the right, where is my sink. Although it has a PID. Anotjer point is that the technical service is located in Madrid where I live and any problem I would have during the years they told me I just have to take the machine there and they will fix it.
I am sure that the Marax or the Elizabeth would perform the same or even better, but I think it's like with the iPhone, the true fans buy every year the new model, even if it doesn't bring so much novelty :). Or like with the cars, there are people who like a VW even if a Seat will do the job. One thing for sure, Rancilio offices in Madrid offer technical support basically forever, even after your guarantee expired. Of course you will have to pay the pieces etc, but at least they don't have to send the machine back to Italy. For me it ticks all the boxes.
I will also be a bit of a lab rat as in Spain I know only 2 owners by now

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13 minutes ago, profesor_historia said:

I don't have second thoughts and I am sure I will be happy with it. Besides I wanted a machine with the steam wand to the right, where is my sink. Although it has a PID. Anotjer point is that the technical service is located in Madrid where I live and any problem I would have during the years they told me I just have to take the machine there and they will fix it.

I am sure you will enjoy the machine, didn't mean to suggest otherwise at all.

I Found your analogy of Android and iPhone interesting, and if I borrow it - just wanted to share the experience of someone who had one and thought I can't change, then changed and found there was nothing to worry about... 🙂

Last thing is the side of the steam wand. I had the same worry as you. I was used to the Silvia's wand being on the right side of the machine, and thought a wand on the left side (mine has a wall to the left of the machine) won't be good. My Silvia used to get milk to splatter when steaming, and I always had little droplets of milk on the right side of the machine. I didn't want to have that on the wall. However, the new machine is much gentler on the milk, and I don't get any splatters and droplets at all. So that is another worry that I had, but turned out not to be a problem.  

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I have had a weekend on the PC looking at all dual boiler PID controlled machines. I have had to take into account width and layout so it all came down to Rancilio Silvia Pro and a Lelit Elizabeth PL92T, the rest of the contenders were mostly eliminated because the steam wand was on the left, and my kitchen layout won't accommodate that.

As far as the technical side the Rancilio had dual water pumps, braided SS and copper pipes with easy access to all parts and a more pleasing look

The Lelit uses a single water pump lots of high pressure plastic pipes and the access to parts was very crowded by wiring. It came with a water softener cartridge which fits into the reservoir but the same cartridge is available for £7.50 and will fit into the Rancilio.

So all in all I am swayed towards the Rancilio, unless of course I change my mind again and keep my Gaggia Cassic. 

ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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6 hours ago, DavecUK said:

At the price of the Pro machine, the Minima makes good sense....pretty much a no brainer.

DaveC you done it this time, the wife took one look at the Minima and told me the Rancilio looks boring.
So here we go again, to cut it short there is as you say no comparison between the two, it ticked all the boxes.
It was the right size with a good mechanical layout, the right handed steam with such a versatile wand was what I was looking for and the E61 group-head was a bonus over the Rancilio. 
I have just sat and watched your Minima video's back to back and I'm in awe of your knowledge, especially the one about brew pressure adjustment, I don't need any more convincing, the ACS Minima is about to be ordered, just got to decide where from. Cheers mate
 

ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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9 minutes ago, mr-bean said:

DaveC you done it this time, the wife took one look at the Minima and told me the Rancilio looks boring.
So here we go again, to cut it short there is as you say no comparison between the two, it ticked all the boxes.
It was the right size with a good mechanical layout, the right handed steam with such a versatile wand was what I was looking for and the E61 group-head was a bonus over the Rancilio. 
I have just sat and watched your Minima video's back to back and I'm in awe of your knowledge, especially the one about brew pressure adjustment, I don't need any more convincing, the ACS Minima is about to be ordered, just got to decide where from. Cheers mate
 

@mr-bean - @BlackCatCoffee has a deal on the minima for forum members, including a free bottomless portafilter I believe. 🙂 

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-coffee-machines/products/acs-minima

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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All done, I just bought the ACS Minima from Black Cat Coffee, who by the way gave me a first rate service and a forum member discount.

Thanks to all who contributed to this post.

Cheers guys.

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ACS Minima, previously a Gaggia Classic with PID & mods, VST Baskets etc.

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