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Sage dual boiler gurgling & steam issues


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So after my last issues with my dual boiler which needed some new washers I have a new problem ( or two )

if I try and make a coffee first thing just after the machine has warmed up it gurgles just after you press the 1 or 2 cup button ( or even the manual button) my work around for this is to stop it and turn on the hot water tap for a second and then it works no problem.

last night I noticed a similar issue with the steam in that hardly any steam was coming out this time the hot water trick didn’t work but eventually the steam started to come out as it would normally.

another thing I’ve noticed is that there is water under the drip tray mainly on the left side, I’ve checked the tray and it’s not full or cracked, and I’ve opened the machine up and can’t see any signs of water leaking (well no new ones) but I did notice the tube from the top of the three way valve (I think that’s what it is) is brown and slightly sticky on the outside and this does end towards the left side of the drip tray
 

ive read a few bits on out west coffee and it suggests it might be the pump but I’ve not got any of the error codes they had.

 

any ideas?

 

stu

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I think the water in the drip tray is normal for sage machines but hopefully an owner will be along shortly to confirm.

As far as the gurgling etc goes, has the machine been descaled recently? Has it been run on suitable water?

David

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Thanks for the reply

It has been descaled and I’ve ran the cleaning cycle a few times over the last month or two. When you say suitable water it’s wet and comes out of a tap if that counts? Lol seriously though we have a two stage water filter but we do get a lot of scale still. I think the machine is about 4/5 years old now and until this year it’s been ok

 

Stu

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The water under the drip tray happens with mine too I think it's just the high pressure water from the opv been blown all over the shop, the gurgling happened with mine too I have completely eliminated it by bypassing the hx loop in the steam boiler as for the steam its probably a scale issue 

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Not sure how old your machine is ie not is it under warranty or not. if it isnt then i would take the top off and see if there are any leaks from the boilers.

Unfortunately i have a similiar issue at the moment which to me sounded like gargling i had a leak on the right side. When trying to make coffee nothing would happen if i had left the machine on for a while. i thought the pump may have gone but after takign the top off i saw there was a leak on the steam boiler.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I’ve had the lid off for a while now and spotted some more leaking seals but there is one I can’t seem to get too, it’s on the side of the steam boiler.

I managed to pull the pin out after I had chipped away the scale (it must have been leaking a long time) but I can’t seem to get the tube out, how difficult is it to remove the boiler from the case? I’ve searched for a video on YouTube but couldn’t see anything 

thanks

stu

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Not sure if this is the right one, but in this general list of repairs, he links (point 3 in the first post) to another post dealing with a change to the 'difficult' o rink on the side of the water boiler.  Good luck!!

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual-boiler-mods-and-maintenance-t61421.html#p681715

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Managed to get the stuck tube out, tried everything including using an old toothbrush and some descaler but in the end using a small screwdriver and pushing it brass bush in a little was just enough to loosen it and then it pulled straight out.

but with it changed its still gurgling away 

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  • 4 months later...

Did you make any progress with this?

Like you, if I switch the machine on and let it heat and press 1 or 2 cup button, I often only get a dribble of fluid come out of the group head and some gurgling. If I 'prime' the system by pressing the hot water button (even for only a fraction of a second), then immediately then press the 1 or 2 cup buttons, it works beautifully.

My machine is the Oracle, and has had filtered water and meticulous descale/back flushing. Have had probes out and they are immaculate so I would be surprosed if scale was the issue. 

Not personally had any issues with steam.  

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Hi not managed to resolve it as yet, I’ve changed a lot of the seals (well the easy ones) I’ve also changed the hot water valve and the steam valve, and the group head collar inserts...

I think it might be the 3 way valve though, i have see a bit of water coming from the tube that goes to the top of the valve going into the drip tray at the back on the left side, but not got around to buying a new one yet

Stu

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The 3 way action via the solenoid dumps water into the drip tray. My DB gurgles if I do a very short back flush. I've also noticed that as the tank gets low I need to flush for longer to get water flow out of the grouphead. This suggests water is flowing back some how but I can't see any leaks. So current theory is that the pump should stop back flow so it's near or at end of life. Outwest show how to get at the fault codes and shot counts. Mines nearing 2,500 which isn't a lot but it's made a lot of 300ml / 10 oz americano. I'm told pumps usually last 5 years but obviously it depends on use. I don't know how old the machine is as it was a refurb. ;) It arrived on the 27/02/18.

I have had solenoid rattle but cleaned it and it went away. I didn't do it this way but it should be easier. Undo and remove the nut at the top and lift off the coil. Remove the rest and unscrew the part left out of the base. It was a bit of sludge on the points where it seals. The electrical connections are latched on - small bump that can be felt on the insulation MACHINE unplugged. When pressed in the connectors come of easily. I used pliers.

I've had them again during a descale. A vigorous back flush before that seems to be a good idea. I use larger sized tablets and crush them up. A backflush after the descale restored normal operation. However solenoids do wear out.

I suspect there is some sludge in my brew boiler due to it not always draining cleanly. Steam hardly gets used but steam pressure gets that out. I don't wait for it to cool before starting as it gets hot anyway. I do wonder if that interferes with the brew draining due to heat in the brew HX pipe.

My machine is only on when drinks are made and then it's turned off. I'm past the point where O rings sometime leak so that might explain that.

I also find water under the drip tray but not sure why. Due to the slope in the apertures at the back it's not easy to get it out without a bit of spillage when near full. I've pulled ~6 shots since emptying and just checked. One drop of water that couldn't have come out of the machine so probably didn't dry it well enough when it went back in. Some water might decide to fall out of the 3 way drain pipe as well.

I found out eventually that a descale by the refurb people, one by me when it arrived and some since didn't remove all of the scale. I descaled twice on the trot and it changed the boiler noises when it heated up. On steam it slowly petered out to near nothing rather than just stopping at some point. Steam is hardly ever used here. In fact I don't think it has been used at all for most of the time it's been here and not much before that.

For my usage I am switching to the general recommended back flush and shower screen cleaning interval. Every 2 weeks. It makes the low side of 2 to 4 shots a day. Crushed larger tablet at the moment to use them up. Then Puly powder with a bit of water added. Or the same crushed oversized tablets ;) can't make my mind up. They leave a mess on some old pliers.

I get very soft water but a man form Severn Trent warned me that they abstract from areas which aren't soft when needed. I'm tempted to set the machine for the hardest water it can be set to and see what happens. I don't think it will request one that often.

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On 21/11/2020 at 20:22, earthflattener said:

Not sure if this is the right one, but in this general list of repairs, he links (point 3 in the first post) to another post dealing with a change to the 'difficult' o rink on the side of the water boiler.  Good luck!!

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual-boiler-mods-and-maintenance-t61421.html#p681715

Thanks. I had missed that page. Picture of the pump so found it on amazon prime and feedback mentions it being fitted to an Oracle. EPAP5 48w. It mentions that something different may be supplied but is the same but I can send it back if not happy.

I had noticed that the solenoid has a standard base and am wondering about fitting a Parker. I'm pretty sure the Sage one has a stainless base though. I meant to scratch the side to see if it's plated but didn't. Stainless for other makes of machine really pushes the price up. The problem with the easily available solenoids is that they have bsp threaded top. I'm not entirely happy with what I can find to convert to push fit pipe yet and it may not fit anyway due to Sage's disk seals rather than O rings.

So when I can stir myself I'll find out if the points I mentioned are down to the pump. It does sound "louder" than it did.

There are some mods. I wondered about converting to a metal OPV and pump to suite plus a hole in the side to I could adjust it.

Slayer type shots by piping brew water through steam of hot water valves or running hot water while pulling the shot. Similar effects can be obtained by setting 15 sec infusion and adjust it's pump power. It's repeatable, manual fiddling isn't. It can be balanced to get 15sec of drips. Ratio needs to be rather different to normal use and it changes taste notes and gives stronger coffee. ;) Can't help wondering of a bigger filter basket is a better option.

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