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New 1 group lever from ACS - Vostok 1 group


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Obviously what I can say is always a side part just because I’m a designer. The machine flex yes, the double spring pressure is 300kg vs 180 of single spring. So mechanically speaking (if we want to s

@Cuprajake It's not the industry, you would be surprised how in Italy they are all friendly with one another ECM (Michael is the same). All of them are just trying to make better machines for their cu

Talking of STILL WAITING (above), I think we really ought to acknowledge the part that our mentor @Davecuk has played in all of this. His brainchild (if I am right) was first talked about in September

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Just now, Ernestedmunds said:

Ah he didnt mention that, he said 3650 euros.... what fees am I likely to have?

Question for @dfk41 or @The Systemic Kid who just had their machines delivered - so they should be able to tell you exactly! 

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20 hours ago, The Systemic Kid said:

Replicated Frans' angle of view as best I could so the scale is pretty much the same for my video below. Watch the movement in the group and compare to Frans' LR 24. 

Love the dreamy music 😎 Patrick hope you’re well and enjoying the new toy 

 

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1 minute ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Question for @dfk41 or @The Systemic Kid who just had their machines delivered - so they should be able to tell you exactly! 

Regarding the import fees, there will be some additional fees based on the declared value of the goods being shipped - It is not too bad though, but budget for an additional ~£200 (can not say exact as I ended up buying the 2 group)

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5 minutes ago, Ernestedmunds said:

Paulo infomed me of the price which at todays exchange rate is £2275 delivered that gives me a delivery date by end July, seems good value to me, well at least compared to other machines, maybe not my classic which ive had for 20 years and cost me £210 new!

Now, I dont want to be controversial but last night I read through the entirety of this thread. There is a clear and notable comparison to londinium and clearly some bad blood which is either with londinium the company or somebody else you all seem to know. Why does the machine keep being compared to them? are they the gold standard of lever machine for the home, they are a little expensive for me? this is an incredibly large amount of money for me and I really dont want to be caught up in a turf war where I end up buying the wrong machine because people are saying its good because they are friends with the manufacturer or trying to score points against unknown enemies. The flex issue is an example, how do I really know if its an issue, one person says it is, another person who already has the machine and has had digs at londinium says it isnt! My initial impression is its an opportunity too good to pass up but It is a worry

The flex issue was really bigged up by a fake account, that has been dealt with. They were posting for one reason only, to create trouble. Watch peoples videos, go and see one if you are really concerned. This is not a discussion or a comparison with Londinium, even if some people want to make it that. This machine is not remotely similar to Londinium in any way except that they both have a lever you pull. So any comparison, doesn't even make sense. The only turf war is one that others are trying to create....

I've been quite open that I am friends with Paolo and helped with the basic design. I used by 20 years experience to make a lever machine for the 21st century, done the best it can be for a fair price. I'm not paid by ACS and I do it for fun. I would certainly never want to be involved in any deception for a machine that was no good. Paolo does not get an easy time from me at all...which is why there was a big delay in getting the Evo out the door.

If that's a major concern for you...buy a Londinium. Then you can be sure that there are:

  • no hidden agendas
  • no hidden relationships with Londinium
  • everything is going to be good, excellent or better
  • There is a closed private forum for discussions and support
  • You can be assured of top notch service
  • The machines are built by Fracino (so easy access to spares)

If you decide on a Londinium R24 or one of the cheaper models, . You will get the same help and welcome on here as any other member. I would go so far as to say, if you have the slightest doubt about the Vesuvius Evo Leva, don't buy it, then your peace of mind is assured. It's a big purchase, so you want to be comfortable.

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3 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

The flex issue was really bigged up by a fake account, that has been dealt with. They were posting for one reason only, to create trouble. Watch peoples videos, go and see one if you are really concerned. This is not a discussion or a comparison with Londinium, even if some people want to make it that. This machine is not remotely similar to Londinium in any way except that they both have a lever you pull. So any comparison, doesn't even make sense. The only turf war is one that others are trying to create....

I've been quite open that I am friends with Paolo and helped with the basic design. I used by 20 years experience to make a lever machine for the 21st century, done the best it can be for a fair price. I'm not paid by ACS and I do it for fun. I would certainly never want to be involved in any deception for a machine that was no good. Paolo does not get an easy time from me at all...which is why there was a big delay in getting the Evo out the door.

If that's a major concern for you...buy a Londinium. Then you can be sure that there are:

  • no hidden agendas
  • no hidden relationships with Londinium
  • everything is going to be good, excellent or better
  • There is a closed private forum for discussions and support
  • You can be assured of top notch service
  • The machines are built by Fracino (so easy access to spares)

If you decide on a Londinium R24 or one of the cheaper models, . You will get the same help and welcome on here as any other member. I would go so far as to say, if you have the slightest doubt about the Vesuvius Evo Leva, don't buy it, then your peace of mind is assured. It's a big purchase, so you want to be comfortable.

@DavecUKYou are a good man, thank you for all you have done.

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@Denis S Here you go matey, but I am not sure exactly what you are trying to see. If you think about a drainpipe, the water does not flow down the middle of the pipe, it sticks to the inside of the pipe and swirls down....but always a pleasure to oblige!

 

 

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GAME, SET and MATCH I BELIEVE!

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21 minutes ago, Holonomic said:

Regarding the import fees, there will be some additional fees based on the declared value
...
but budget for an additional ~£200

I know this is very confusing and not transparent at all. But... if VAT is 20% and a machine costs say, £2.3k... How can the custom charges be around £200? Should it be around £400 or is the declared value a lot less than what the customer pays for?

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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29 minutes ago, Ernestedmunds said:

Ah he didnt mention that, he said 2650 euros.... what fees am I likely to have?

Do not know if this has been answered but my fees were £137

GAME, SET and MATCH I BELIEVE!

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35 minutes ago, Ernestedmunds said:

Paulo infomed me of the price which at todays exchange rate is £2275 delivered that gives me a delivery date by end July, seems good value to me, well at least compared to other machines, maybe not my classic which ive had for 20 years and cost me £210 new!

Now, I dont want to be controversial but last night I read through the entirety of this thread. There is a clear and notable comparison to londinium and clearly some bad blood which is either with londinium the company or somebody else you all seem to know. Why does the machine keep being compared to them? are they the gold standard of lever machine for the home, they are a little expensive for me? this is an incredibly large amount of money for me and I really dont want to be caught up in a turf war where I end up buying the wrong machine because people are saying its good because they are friends with the manufacturer or trying to score points against unknown enemies. The flex issue is an example, how do I really know if its an issue, one person says it is, another person who already has the machine and has had digs at londinium says it isnt! My initial impression is its an opportunity too good to pass up but It is a worry

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd be the Evo.

I currently own a Londinium R, which I am more than happy with and will probably never replace. Londiniums service is amazing and the machine has been a joy to use.

One of the reasons I ended up with one was a very kind member on here @The Systemic Kid was kind enough to invite me over to his house(pre-covid) and spent all afternoon pulling shots and talking about coffee with me. I trust his tastes fully and he has no affiliation with either Londinium or ACS. 

 

Why would I buy the Evo now if I had to replace my londinium, 1. The reviews of @The Systemic Kid@dfk41 so far are all positive and they have both previously owned Londiniums so their reviews are the most relevant to me as a Londinium owner.

The Evo offers far more adjustability and features at a far lower price point than the current LR24. You could buy the Evo and a high end grinder for the price of the LR24.

ACS as far as I understand also offer fantastic service.

Just my 2 cents. 

p.s not to discount all of your views on the machine @DavecUK - we all know your shares in ACS, Niche and Osmio are soaring these days 😂😂😂😂 

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7 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

I know this is very confusing and not transparent at all. But... if VAT is 20% and a machine costs say, £2.3k... How can the custom charges be around £200? Should it be around £400 or is the declared value a lot less than what the customer pays for?

Fair point and probably a failure with my maths ;) In regards to the import duties, I would budget for the 20% and any any less is a nice bonus! :)

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49 minutes ago, Ernestedmunds said:

Ah he didnt mention that, he said 2650 euros.... what fees am I likely to have?

Price Paolo is quoting is ex-factory including shipping via DHL. When your machine is ready for despatch, DHL will email you with a customs bill which you have to pay before they will deliver. Currently, it's about £130.00.

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1 hour ago, Holonomic said:

Regarding the import fees, there will be some additional fees based on the declared value of the goods being shipped - It is not too bad though, but budget for an additional ~£200 (can not say exact as I ended up buying the 2 group)

Out of interest what made you go for the 2 group? And how does the price compare? Thanks! 

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1 hour ago, Fez said:

p.s not to discount all of your views on the machine @DavecUK - we all know your shares in ACS, Niche and Osmio are soaring these days 😂😂😂😂 

You forgot my Quickmill, Lelit, ECM, Profitec, Crem, Izzo shares, solo ones, and my Eureka Ones...I'd be a rich man 🤣

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1 hour ago, DavecUK said:

You forgot my Quickmill, Lelit, ECM, Profitec, Crem, Izzo shares, solo ones, and my Eureka Ones...I'd be a rich man 🤣

Did you forget Sandbox Smart? 🙂 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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3 hours ago, Ernestedmunds said:

Paulo infomed me of the price which at todays exchange rate is £2275 delivered that gives me a delivery date by end July, seems good value to me, well at least compared to other machines, maybe not my classic which ive had for 20 years and cost me £210 new!

Now, I dont want to be controversial but last night I read through the entirety of this thread. There is a clear and notable comparison to londinium and clearly some bad blood which is either with londinium the company or somebody else you all seem to know. Why does the machine keep being compared to them? are they the gold standard of lever machine for the home, they are a little expensive for me? this is an incredibly large amount of money for me and I really dont want to be caught up in a turf war where I end up buying the wrong machine because people are saying its good because they are friends with the manufacturer or trying to score points against unknown enemies. The flex issue is an example, how do I really know if its an issue, one person says it is, another person who already has the machine and has had digs at londinium says it isnt! My initial impression is its an opportunity too good to pass up but It is a worry

I don’t think it’s fair to the Vesuvius Evo Leva to be compared to LR24! It’s like comparing the champions league with La Liga! Both are good but in totally different class. I’m not saying that you should get this machine but I’ll tell you why I bought it after 2 days of reading about it and watching Dave’s YouTube videos. I was eyeing LR24 for over a year but couldn’t pull the trigger I don’t know why but there was something about it that’s not that appealing. I’m glad I didn’t and the right machine came along thanks to Dave and Paolo. In a quick comparison I did, I listed these advantages of the Evo against LR24 :

- Cheaper

- Better internals ( La Marzocco like )

- Dual Boiler ( First affordable dual boiler lever machine on the market )

- More expensive reliable LSM group head which costs 40% more than LR24’s group head ( + I’ve always wanted to try a LSM shot which been described as pudding-like! ) 

- Warm up time 16 minutes VS 1 hour for LR24 

- ACS been on the market for a long time and they know what they are doing 

- Black colored side panels and rear is a huge plus for me 

Don’t buy the machine based on my advice. I’m just telling you the reasons that got me to buy it. 

Edited by MW11
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On a side note: I see the flex and I know it’s a double spring group head but it will only get worse with time and use. I hope Mr.Cortese will support the front panel with more weight (or any solution possible) even if I have to pay extra. I’m on the 2nd batch with 2 machines, one is for a friend who I convinced of selling his Synchronika in favor of the Evo Leva. 

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30 minutes ago, MW11 said:

On a side note: I see the flex and I know it’s a double spring group head but it will only get worse with time and use. I hope Mr.Cortese will support the front panel with more weight (or any solution possible) even if I have to pay extra. I’m on the 2nd batch with 2 machines, one is for a friend who I convinced of selling his Synchronika in favor of the Evo Leva. 

The front panel is 2mm thick stainless and behind that is a further strengthening plate and load spreader of 3mm thick. This makes a total of 5mm thick stainless. It will never break or get worse with time.

image.png.875137f606c29e79d427c8d20ac2238b.png

 

Brew WATER pipe is shaped like this to prevent any minute movement causing a problem and the feed to the group is close to the centre, at the point of minimum movement.

image.png.aeb3f8c0456d38a7286f25913028604c.png

Edited by DavecUK
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29 minutes ago, MW11 said:

On a side note: I see the flex and I know it’s a double spring group head but it will only get worse with time and use. I hope Mr.Cortese will support the front panel with more weight (or any solution possible) even if I have to pay extra. I’m on the 2nd batch with 2 machines, one is for a friend who I convinced of selling his Synchronika in favor of the Evo Leva. 

I wouldn't assume that any changes will be made for the 2nd batch. Those involved and also those that have received their machines had indicated that it's not an issue so unless Paolo confirms it I guess your one will be the same.

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