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allikat

Silvia Pro sneak peek from SCG

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Coming very soon:

 

Comments?


Gear:

Gaggia Baby 2001, Gaggia Color 2007, Delonghi Dedica, Severin grinder, Marcfi badged Compak K6 2004

Sent from my grinder using smoke signals.

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47 minutes ago, allikat said:

Coming very soon:

 

Comments?

Too much money for too little functionality versus the completion . 


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I like the LED on top of the steam tap (I don't really 🙂 )  Personally, I think it's rubbish. Too much money, nothing really innovative. many, many years too late.

 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Wondering if the Pro carries through the poor design features of the Silvia -

Steel frame which rusts with ease.

Shallow drip tray which needs to be tilted to remove thus reducing the volume and inducing scratches into that frame. (Rust)

Solenoid valve which dumps water onto the frame right at a seam. (Rust)

Poor design of the water tank tubing access (which allows condensation from the tank to run out and down the silicon tubing and onto the rear of the frame. (Rust)

Shallow access under the group head.

All of the above are enough for me to avoid this machine at £1350. I currently live with a Silvia and having stripped it down and experienced it's flaws I'm astounded that after 23 years this product has not addressed the numerous issues which largely revolve around the crappy steel frame (temp imbalance aside). I have the feeling of apathy from Rancilio regarding the development of the Silvia.

The PID on the pro looks very basic, the sort of basic cheap PID I would expect to see as standard on the Silvia at its current RRP and temperate instability. 

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I did give some engineering feedback on the Silvia many years ago....they ignored me.

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I was intrigued to see that on the profile side, it looked to be about the same size as the Classic...then I saw the side view, LOL. 

15 minutes ago, Jasetaylor said:

Wondering if the Pro carries through the poor design features of the Silvia -

Steel frame which rusts with ease.

Shallow drip tray which needs to be tilted to remove thus reducing the volume and inducing scratches into that frame. (Rust)

Solenoid valve which dumps water onto the frame right at a seam. (Rust)

Poor design of the water tank tubing access (which allows condensation from the tank to run out and down the silicon tubing and onto the rear of the frame. (Rust)

Shallow access under the group head.

All of the above are enough for me to avoid this machine at £1350. I currently live with a Silvia and having stripped it down and experienced it's flaws I'm astounded that after 23 years this product has not addressed the numerous issues which largely revolve around the crappy steel frame (temp imbalance aside). I have the feeling of apathy from Rancilio regarding the development of the Silvia.

The PID on the pro looks very basic, the sort of basic cheap PID I would expect to see as standard on the Silvia at its current RRP and temperate instability. 

Having spent more time with the Silvia (alongside my Classic), I agree with a lot of these comments. I was a bit surprised at how much less functional the Silvia design was for the home market. The Silvia is touted as more "solidly built" than the Classic, and yet there are many fewer chassis problems on the Classic, with its thinner stainless steel body and plastic dip tray. This reminds me of the push to make phones out of aluminium or glass, despite the fact that plastic phones would hold up for much longer. Heavier does not always mean better. 

You also did not mention the flaking plastic grouphead cover (though I guess that was 'fixed' when the Silvia went to the black ABS version). 

The Silvia's original design is not particularly efficient, either, with a lot of wasted space for little purpose (I wonder if the body is wider than necessary because of their logo). 

2 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

I did give some engineering feedback on the Silvia many years ago....they ignored me.

What were the things you pointed out?

 

 

Edited by phario

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10 minutes ago, Jasetaylor said:

Poor design of the water tank tubing access (which allows condensation from the tank to run out and down the silicon tubing and onto the rear of the frame. (Rust)

I dismantled my silvia to try and find a mystery leak, it was weeks later I realised this was happening.

The shallow access under the grouphead might be fixed as the pictures show its a fair bit taller
https://imgur.com/a/orjz8OO

but i wouldn't be surprised if lots of these issues are present, you can see from the pictures

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1 minute ago, phario said:

What were the things you pointed out?

Sadly I can't say but a lot more than has already been mentioned. I was relatively unimpressed with the machine for the money...no offence intended to Silvia owners.

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31 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

I like the LED on top of the steam tap (I don't really 🙂 )  Personally, I think it's rubbish. Too much money, nothing really innovative. many, many years too late.

 

Absolutely.

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20 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

Sadly I can't say but a lot more than has already been mentioned. I was relatively unimpressed with the machine for the money...no offence intended to Silvia owners.

I'm thinking about writing a short 'article' about the rise of the Silvia in the 90s and early 00s. 

In my opinion, the current sentiment about the Silvia is almost all attributed to its rise in the early 00s before the introduction of the Classic and other alternatives. At this point, it was a huge steal at its price point, and there wasn't much that was on the market of comparable value. From Mark Prince's 2007 Silvia v3 review:

Quote

These changes constitute the latest revision in a machine that was first introduced in late 1997 as a prototype gift machine meant for Rancilio's best importers and vendors - something the company didn't initially intend to sell. Since that time, the Rancilio Silvia has become the best selling espresso machine above $300, and has far outpaced most of the market, including most commercial machines in terms of numbers sold.

It's shocking, to me, that there are still many posts by new buyers asking about Silvia vs. Classic and then vague references by forum members to "look it up". In reality, most of the skeptical posts comparing the two machines were written in the mid-2000s when the Classic was still unproven. There's really no reason, IMO, to recommend the Silvia to new buyers. If you can source one for £200 or lower, it's worth it, but even then, I would probably recommend a used PID Classic for £250. If you're really concerned with temperature stability (one of the few advantages of the Silvia), then you should really be moving up to a dual boiler or HX. 

 

Edited by phario

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Just now, phario said:

I'm thinking about writing a short 'article' about the rise of the Silvia in the 90s and early 00s. 

In my opinion, the current sentiment about the Silvia is almost all attributed to its rise in the early 00s before the introduction of the Classic and other alternatives. At this point, it was a huge steal at its price point, and there wasn't much that was on the market of comparable value. 

It's shocking, to me, that there are still many posts by new buyers asking about Silvia vs. Classic and then vague references by forum members to "look it up". In reality, most of the skeptical posts comparing the two machines were written in the mid-2000s when the Classic was still unproven. 

I think that's true for a few machines over the years. For some good marketing kept them "relevant" in the consumers minds...for others they seem to have largely disappeared from the Prosumer scene....Isomac, Izzo etc..

I think there is still too much "Marketing" of machines although it is changing. I remember the days when they never showed you the inside...I think I was first to do that, now a lot of retailers and companies want to tell you about what's inside and show you as well. I think we have finally (thanks god) moved into a new era where the manufacturers are starting to "listen" to consumers and take notice of what the end users want, not just the retailers..

It's why I like Lelit, ACS and ECM, they are all really trying to do the right thing and build good machines at a sensible price that are openly repairable and should last. Even Crem, hard work as a big coporate eventually came round and started listening. I suppose Rancilio are at least acknowledging they need to change, recognising how users are modding the machines, healthy first steps in my opinion/

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1 hour ago, DavecUK said:

Sadly I can't say but a lot more than has already been mentioned. I was relatively unimpressed with the machine for the money...no offence intended to Silvia owners.

I'd be throwing myself under the bus if I'd design that (Silvia). Fear not, the Silvia Peoples Front will not be coming for you. (Well, on second thoughts to swipe that Minima)

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1 hour ago, DavecUK said:

I think that's true for a few machines over the years. For some good marketing kept them "relevant" in the consumers minds...for others they seem to have largely disappeared from the Prosumer scene....Isomac, Izzo etc..

I think there is still too much "Marketing" of machines although it is changing. I remember the days when they never showed you the inside...I think I was first to do that, now a lot of retailers and companies want to tell you about what's inside and show you as well. I think we have finally (thanks god) moved into a new era where the manufacturers are starting to "listen" to consumers and take notice of what the end users want, not just the retailers..

It's why I like Lelit, ACS and ECM, they are all really trying to do the right thing and build good machines at a sensible price that are openly repairable and should last. Even Crem, hard work as a big coporate eventually came round and started listening. I suppose Rancilio are at least acknowledging they need to change, recognising how users are modding the machines, healthy first steps in my opinion/

I do laugh when the video ad for the Silvia Pro talks about the "quite a bit of other programming" that goes into the PID. You can literally build a PID with a £10 Raspberry Pi or Arduino with an SSR and a temperature probe. 

It would be very interesting to hear what is discussed in the board rooms for some of these companies. 

One issue that I am very curious about is what machines are most popular in poorer countries, like Eastern European countries. There is such a wonderfully healthy market for Gaggia Classic modifications that I've seen from places like Hungary, Czech Republic, etc. I assume this has to do with the machines' hardiness and wide availability of cheap replacement parts. 

By the way, regarding the "double boiler" nature of the Silvia Pro...these are images from a modder from Taiwan that was shared on alt.coffee. Double boiler modification to the Silvia. Dual PIDs and plumbed in water. Note the timestamp to 2002. 

jerome03.jpg.e1995fd61d47729529c47a88fcf36334.jpgjerome01.jpg.611956e6b70cdd4872163c120a58098b.jpgjerome02.jpg.db4d40a3bef6559e2e8ff1635f5c41ed.jpg

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1 hour ago, espressoSquirrel said:

I dismantled my silvia to try and find a mystery leak, it was weeks later I realised this was happening.

The shallow access under the grouphead might be fixed as the pictures show its a fair bit taller
https://imgur.com/a/orjz8OO

but i wouldn't be surprised if lots of these issues are present, you can see from the pictures

I did implement a fix for the rear leak, or at least damage control after finding rust in the rear frame where dried water residue can be traced from where it drops from the two silicon tubes, onto the firewall/separating sheet of metal and onto the frame. My V5 Silvia was 12 months old when I received it, on the surface it appeared near immaculate and still had some of the panel wrapping on from factory. Yet it has the beginnings of a rust blister right where the water makes its way from the tank to the frame. To say I was pissed is an understatement, on the basis on that discovery I almost put it back up for sale before I'd even used it. I have all the original boxes still.

The sloppy design issues for a machine which has been on the market for over 20 years leaves me confounded. The Silvia, by design is destroying itself slowly over time and requires so much more attention to cleaning to mitigate it's self flagellation.

The odd thing is, I still like the Silvia despite it's annoyances.

 

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at least with the pro theres more space in that chassis to fit more crazy mod's I wonder if i can fit a rtx3090 in there and just turn it into a gaming computer/espresso machine. In order to steam milk you would need to play microsoft flight simulator 2020 for a few minutes to get it up to full temperature. 

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2 minutes ago, espressoSquirrel said:

at least with the pro theres more space in that chassis to fit more crazy mod's I wonder if i can fit a rtx3090 in there and just turn it into a gaming computer/espresso machine. In order to steam milk you would need to play microsoft flight simulator 2020 for a few minutes to get it up to full temperature. 

Those models already exist, the Rancilio Lucy and Rancilio Nancy 😏

Often I find the claim that the Silvia is the only non-commercial machine produced by Rancilio. 

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32 minutes ago, espressoSquirrel said:

at least with the pro theres more space in that chassis to fit more crazy mod's I wonder if i can fit a rtx3090 in there and just turn it into a gaming computer/espresso machine. In order to steam milk you would need to play microsoft flight simulator 2020 for a few minutes to get it up to full temperature. 

They kind of kept the width of the machine, but man the machine is long! I doubt there's any space in there for you to add your own stuff. I hear that, however, the LED on top of steam nob is a strobe for navigation lights, and you can code your SQUAK in the PID. 😂. Middle switch will disengage the auto-pilot though. (Sorry, could not help citing FS references). Been playing the stuff since FS 5.1 back in the mid nineties on MS-DOS 6.22!  

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Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Wait... it's £1300???? That's crazy money for a Silvia! There's so many far better machines at that price. The Silvia's claim to fame is that it's a better Classic for a bit more money, yeah the new one is Dual Boiler, but the shape of it... narrow and long, that's not gonna fit many people's counters well at all. And that price... For that money there's the Profitec 300... Or save £300 and get the Lelit Elizabeth, also dual boiler with PID...

Edited by allikat

Gear:

Gaggia Baby 2001, Gaggia Color 2007, Delonghi Dedica, Severin grinder, Marcfi badged Compak K6 2004

Sent from my grinder using smoke signals.

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