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In late October I will be visiting Lelit in Milan and spending a few days in the factory with the owner and designers of the machines. It will be to look at the ideas for, and some actual, prototype new technology/software coming out over the next year or two. Much of this will be at concept/drawing stage. It's an unusual opportunity in as much as companies don't share any of this stuff outside the company, with retailers or anyone else. Often waiting to showcase some of it at something like Host Milan 2021. Although I won't be able to share some, or all of what I see, I can use user feedback to shape some of my input into the work.

It might also cover accessory kits, the range of machines etc...

So if you have any feedback, things you would like me to consider, make sure are covered, or simply things you would like to ask if you were there, let me know in this thread and I will try to cover them. I already have an extensive list of things to cover but there is always room for more.

I'm not going there as a retailer but as a user/designer/ideas person and the view, what's good for you will be good for Lelit. This means my perspective is very much going to be in sympathy with what you guys value and find useful. I've already started off a process whereby software upgrades should be easier and cheaper one day and it will be good to solidify that area, so development activities support software update activities, rather than preclude them.

I don't know how much video/photos I can publish, even though I will take plenty, or how much feedback I can give. Even so, it's your chance to make a difference if you want to feed something back.

 

P.S. If it works out well, I will be doing a similar thing with ECM/Profitec in Germany in the new year and also with ACS in Naples, because again they are all owner companies, not corporates.

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I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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In late October I will be visiting Lelit in Milan and spending a few days in the factory with the owner and designers of the machines. It will be to look at the ideas for, and some actual, prototype n

If the Victoria could be revamped to be literally Half Elizabeth (i.e.: Without the service/steam boiler) that would sell like hot cakes and appeal to a huge portion of the market. All of a sudden, th

Hey all, new Elizabeth v3 owner here. Just wanted to say thanks to DaveC, your in-depth reviews definitely made it for me, and I've decided for an Elizabeth mainly because of counter space and the LCC

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6 minutes ago, spasypaddy said:

marax with a digital pid like the one on the elizabeth? thats basically my dream machine

So an LCC where you can set the HX loop temperature prior to boiler boost?

What about using a solenoid E61 group as well, so no maintenance?

Edited by DavecUK
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I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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3 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

So an LCC where you can set the HX loop temperature prior to boiler boost?

What about using a solenoid E61 group as well, so no maintenance?

nah i love the idea of the lever. otherwise i get the ACS minima. and if i dont want e61 then i get the elizabeth. But i cant afford/dont need the bianca.

they used to make the maraT i believe which was what i describe

 

the marax form/size is perfect for myself and probably most home users

Edited by spasypaddy
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14 minutes ago, spasypaddy said:

nah i love the idea of the lever. otherwise i get the ACS minima. and if i dont want e61 then i get the elizabeth. But i cant afford/dont need the bianca.

they used to make the maraT i believe which was what i describe

That's a pity because you could potentially have some of the preinfusion cleverness (2 preinfusion types) of the Elizabeth with a solenoid E61 and no maintenance. As well as timed shots, auto backflushing flushing etc..I'd have called it the MaraX Pro (love naming stuff)

I think the MaraT was an ordinary Mara (old style one) with a PID instead of a fixed  steam pressure...I thought you meant you wanted to control the brew water values in the HX loop directly rather than a 3 position switch.

Edited by DavecUK
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I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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2 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

That's a pity because you could potentially have some of the preinfusion cleverness (2 preinfusion types) of the Elizabeth with a solenoid E61 and no maintenance. As well as timed shots, auto backflushing flushing etc..I'd have called it the MaraX Pro (love naming stuff)

I think the MaraT was an ordinary Mara (old style one) with a PID instead of a fixed  steam pressure...I thought you meant you wanted to control the brew water values in the HX loop directly rather than a 3 position switch.

well now youre talking like that it sounds interesting, but surely then youre back up at a much higher price point. the marax is a sweet spot IMO of pricing, size, etc 

so what youre suggesting is an elizabeth with an e61 which is just as an interesting proposition.

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Marax owner ....

Another vote for an add-on PID incorporating shot timer. It's already been shown as a 'do-able' on YouTube. If Lelit were to produce one think of the revenue, otherwise I hope a third party vendor comes along soon. I'm thinking of returning the machine for a Bianca.

One more ... a selection of top/drip tray covers to replace, if required, those awful looking ones currently fitted. They may be purposeful but look cheap in my opinion. Better selection needed.

Right/Left (in my case) angled power cord. My machine sits 3" off my wall. Not a good look when it could be closer.

And I've not even powered my machine up yet [emoji38] those items would make my choice of sticking with it longer term more of a certainty.



Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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15 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
That's a pity because you could potentially have some of the preinfusion cleverness (2 preinfusion types) of the Elizabeth with a solenoid E61 and no maintenance. As well as timed shots, auto backflushing flushing etc..I'd have called it the MaraX Pro (love naming stuff)
I think the MaraT was an ordinary Mara (old style one) with a PID instead of a fixed  steam pressure...I thought you meant you wanted to control the brew water values in the HX loop directly rather than a 3 position switch.

Doesn't appeal to me either Dave. A solenoid based Marax, pro or whatever, would 'sanitise' the whole experience of the Marax which after all is serving to move a whole lot of lesser machine mortals to an all-round E61 experience, lever and all. What would the future progression be? Lelit Elizabeth PRO with electronic profiling [emoji849][emoji45][emoji51]

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

Edited by skylark
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4 minutes ago, spasypaddy said:

well now youre talking like that it sounds interesting, but surely then youre back up at a much higher price point. the marax is a sweet spot IMO of pricing, size, etc 

so what youre suggesting is an elizabeth with an e61 which is just as an interesting proposition.

You would think so wouldn't you but you didn't see maraX change the price point...I think it might be done at a very modest increase. Almost an Elizabeth, but without the dual boilers.

 

4 minutes ago, skylark said:

Marax owner ....

Another vote for an add-on PID incorporating shot timer. It's already been shown as a 'do-able' on YouTube. If Lelit were to produce one think of the revenue, otherwise I hope a third party vendor comes along soon. I'm thinking of returning the machine for a Bianca.

1. One more ... a selection of top/drip tray covers to replace, if required, those awful looking ones currently fitted. They may be purposeful but look cheap in my opinion. Better selection needed.

2. Right/Left (in my case) angled power cord. My machine sits 3" off my wall. Not a good look when it could be closer.

And I've not even powered my machine up yet emoji38.png those items would make my choice of sticking with it longer term more of a certainty.

1. I like the grids because they don't show scratches...perhaps something a little thicker, so it looks less like thin wire?

2. Yes angled power cords good (ACS have moved to them) and lelit should as well.  I purchased a few from Amazon to use with test machines because you can get them a lot closer to the wall. I paid about £5 for them. I think there are some with swivel ends, but I'm too mean to buy those.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002DWA8IW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

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I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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2 minutes ago, skylark said:

Lelit Elizabeth PRO with el chronic profiling emoji849.pngemoji45.pngemoji51.png

What's that, I don't understand?

I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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Just now, skylark said:

Damned predictive text ...electronic 😆

Oh, no not really....

I think if you have not powered your machine up, or used it and your not 100% happy, then it might be a good idea to return it to get something you know you are more likely to be satisfied with. It's a big investment and important to get it right!

I don’t like – Sticks and Stones, beans that are sour, green…or rancid (horrible). Quakers hide until you roast them, then they scream out at you in the cooling tray, pick em out and flick them in the bin.. Lifes too short for bad coffee!

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Solenoid E61 with intelligent lever that can do via trickery what a lever activated E61 can do with various positions?
Might just work but why would you fit it out with electronic wizardry when it already has a tried and tested lever?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, skylark said:

Might just work but why would you fit it out with electronic wizardry when it already has a tried and tested lever?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

Because Solenoid groups can be backflushed without having to dismantle the thing and re-grease it.

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I am sure this is already on the list, but it would be nice to have the OPV go back to the tank, as common with other machines. I supposed it's mostly an issue for those who buy bottled water, but this would be an improvement for me. I will take this opportunity to ask if this is a mod that can be done easily, if anyone has done it and is willing to share instructions?

The drip tray grill - I thought I wouldn't like it, but actually I do! Not just because of the scratches, but also because it doesn't suffer as much from water/coffee drips. I got used to it and don't think it takes anything from the design.

Right angel cord - this would certainly be a good idea. It's easily fixed - I bought one on amazon for £3, but why not just replace what they give out?

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MaraX:

- A solenoid group operated MaraX, with LCC to display and adjust temperature, pre-infusion, shot time, etc would be great. I'm not a fan on timed shots, but I can see the appeal for the bulk of the market (timed grinder, timed shot). If you dose by weight, and care about output weight, it's very unlikely your shots will be the same time and again. 
- Recessive hot water tap (We don't make tea, we drain the boiler). 
- Drain plug to replenish / descale the water inside the service boiler if you want to. 
- OPV return back to the tank.
 

If this comes true I'll be selling the Elizabeth 🤣 (joking)

----

Elizabeth:
- Make the drip tray a tad deeper (like, 1cm?) to the front of the machine - so the steam wand rests inside the drip tray, and not just over the drip tray when facing forwards.
- Overshooting brew temperature during warm up: IMO, given the size and position of the boiler... It's not really required. You can fool the machine by heating up to 70C, turn machine off, turn back on again. Controller will detect that machine is "hot enough" and will not overshoot to 120C and then come down gradually. 
- Hot water tap: Why bother mixing the water with the brew boiler? I understand if you want an Americano... But really... Use the kettle. I'd rather have a hot water tap to cycle the service boiler, not to make coffee. I do understand however that the machine design will have to change to allow this.
- Allow a timed shot to be aborted. Sometimes, you feel the shot is running too slow, but you set the time to 30 seconds or so, and you know you won't have the desired output. Give the option to abort the timer, maybe by adding 10s for each button press or something.
- Better, more spaced out backflushing cycles when using the machine's own functionality.
- Less error-prone way of accessing the advanced menu: A slight distraction and the machine is reset to factory defaults (including purging 500ml of water as part of it!)
- Portafilter handle and Steam knob upgrade: It looks cheap and tacky. 
- Include a tamper with the machine, not the plastic nonsense. 

Edit: few corrections.

 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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