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22 minutes ago, Johnny Ess said:

Here is the fan, looks a little out of balance -

https://filebin.net/yinrmyksys3e7b2w

That's not the fan, it's the speed governor....the fan is in the top of the cyclone...3 screws and pull it out...check out my videos on the Dalian. I think it would do you good to watch all of this video. 16m of your life you will never get back, but it's worth it.

 

I like toffee.....but try and talk sense when you're chewing it!

 

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Hi All, Many thanks for your inputs - much appreciated. @Rob1 - yes 180 days. Just checked my 180 days is up next Saturday although they've gave me a couple of extra weeks due to covid-19 an

I usually roast with the Cooling Tray damper open fully, and use the SD to control the roast ROR. This avoids swirls of air in the roast chamber affecting readings....I like to pull minimum air, enoug

The warranty is only for 180 days isn't it?  I thought an idea to control the temp through and after first crack would be to have the element switch off entirely at a set point (depending on how

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It's a small thing, can be very easily missed....

You might just want to pull more air though the roast chamber at the time the chaff is coming off....however there are some very chaffy coffees that can burn. One of the many causes of fires in Roasteries is the chaff box...some of them are large and have slightly oily very flammable chaff boxes. A few embers can go through and set it off.

When you have finished roasting a good habit to get into is ALWAYS empty the chaff box, never shut down and leave it. If you are roasting a very chaffy coffee, just use the chaff removal switch and keep the chaff draw empty. Even if it does smoulder, it's not going to impact the taste of the coffee. The other thing you can do is use a spray bottle of water on the chaff in the draw when roasting a really chaffy coffee....to keep it from igniting. Just make sure the draw is dry at the end of the day.

This is of course on the assumption that the roaster has not done a few 1000 kg and is need of maintenance.

I like toffee.....but try and talk sense when you're chewing it!

 

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Thanks Dave, Ive tried drawing more air through the roaster and managed to avoid the burning in the tray.  Will experiment with different airflow settings and make sure its enough.  Not sure why it happened all of sudden or if it had something to do with the excess grease on the front bearing.  Seem to have it under control today anyway. Cheers!

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@Johnny Ess the front bearing lube should be sparingly applied and food safe

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I like toffee.....but try and talk sense when you're chewing it!

 

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3 hours ago, Johnny Ess said:

Can anyone using the power mod share examples of your airflow settings?

@Johnny Ess Take a look at this profile I did a few weeks back. Not sure how good it is. I find air flow settings around FC interesting since I tend to open CD during FC to help reduce the air flow out of roaster through thr SD to help keep heat in and prevent the crash. Not sure if this is correct and an area I am still working on.

Hope it helps.

Phil.

Guatemala 'El Durazno' 043_2021.jpg

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On 12/04/2021 at 10:05, Johnny Ess said:

So you’re leaving the burner on for about 30-45 seconds after FC to avoid the ROR crash?

I usually roast with the Cooling Tray damper open fully, and use the SD to control the roast ROR. This avoids swirls of air in the roast chamber affecting readings....I like to pull minimum air, enough to clear chaff when needed and would rather set the power a little lower for the roast than pull lots of air through the roast chamber.

 

I get a feeling of Deep joy, especially with dry process and pulped natural, if I can cut off the burners 20s or so before it enters first and goes like a train. Especially if there is a continual rise, albeit flattened out as it should be. If it enters first with the burners on, I feel I've lost ;)

During first I'll pull the air required to control the maximum temperature I want to reach, by more SD and if that's not enough closing the CA

Edited by DavecUK
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I like toffee.....but try and talk sense when you're chewing it!

 

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2 hours ago, Johnny Ess said:

So you’re leaving the burner on for about 30-45 seconds after FC to avoid the ROR crash?

There won't necessarily be one. You can have enough energy put into the roast before first crack with enough residual heat in the roaster to carry it through. I've tried operating the roaster with CA fully closed to fully open and the more CA is closed the hotter the environment gets (outside the roaster) the hotter everything gets including the ducting and cyclone. For me airflow is far in excess of what I want at this point but pumping CA open and closed can help blow off chaff early in the roast as the beans expand. 

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@Rob1 -If I understand you correctly,  you are turning off the power prior to first and then coasting all the way to the end? Does this work well for a range of beans (origin/process/varietal)? How far after FC do you (typically) roast? My worry would be stalling the roast at some stage so I would be keen to know more about your relative ET and BT measures at the point where you turn the power off. I am struggling with a Honey Process bean at the moment; it looks good all the way through to FC and then suddenly chars like you wouldn't believe! This might be an avenue to explore next time I roast. Have you done the power mod?

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Thanks everyone. Interesting thoughts, but how do you control the ROR? If CA is fully open and during FC you open SD (if I'm reading correctly) are you not causing a crash since you are allowing too much heat to escape? The thinking of opening CA during FC is that it draws more air through the cooling tray and so stops heat loss in the chamber.

Since at present I am adjusting the power through the dimmer by the time it hits FC I have reduced it to around 1100/1300W. I can try some experimenting keeping power at 2400/2500W all the way through to FC and turn off just be FC, but would need to be careful not to hit the flick just before FC due to too much momentum.

As RDC8 mentions how far past FC do you generally go before dropping?

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I keep reading about flicks and crashes and ROR..It might be good to put all that stuff away for a bit and really observe the roast with ears, eyes and nose

Star Wars GIF

I strongly recommend people don't confuse themselves with computers and too much complication when learning, because it's easy to miss the basics.

  • With the power mod, I came up with the idea, not so people could twiddle it around during the roast (I rarely do), but to set the power for different conditions (winter summer) and beans (size and density). I rarely change it during the roast from the power level I wanted, unless I fecked up....or voltage is varying so much I want to keep it constant.
  • With the power setting, always give yourself a bit of headroom if you can, so if the voltage drops, you can increase the power
  • If you still have heat on during 1st that's not good...with a full kg in the roaster, you shouldn't need it, you fecked up
  • If first is going off like it's November the 5th on steroids...you fecked up
  • If you force first...you fecked up
  • if the temperature gets too high in 1st....you fecked up
  • Don't try and force some funny idea of a best ROR, some beans go faster than others and some don't like being forced
  • Pull only the air you need to pull
  • Apart from a bump open close of the CA to get rid off chaff sometimes...keep it fully open (why wouldn't you). The only time to close it is if you can't control the temp rise during first with SD fully open. Then you might close it 33%, 66% or completely.
  • Closing CA, stops the cyclone working well, robs heat from the roasting chamber, heats up the tube chaff collector and clogs the fan.  It also means when you open the SD a little, you get jets of air and swirls within the roast chamber that affect the roast and the probe.
  • If you want to roast really light....if you roast as normal and drop it 30s or so into first....you fecked up. That's not properly roasting light.
  • Don't have some fixed idea of roasting times....for some beans 15m 30s is fine., for others the whole roast might take 13m. Whatever you do ignore the times in the world roasting competition.

No more free advice...but stop using the computer for a bit....start watching what's going on....really watching and take notes.

Edited by DavecUK
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I like toffee.....but try and talk sense when you're chewing it!

 

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7 hours ago, RDC8 said:

@Rob1 -If I understand you correctly,  you are turning off the power prior to first and then coasting all the way to the end? Does this work well for a range of beans (origin/process/varietal)? How far after FC do you (typically) roast? My worry would be stalling the roast at some stage so I would be keen to know more about your relative ET and BT measures at the point where you turn the power off. I am struggling with a Honey Process bean at the moment; it looks good all the way through to FC and then suddenly chars like you wouldn't believe! This might be an avenue to explore next time I roast. Have you done the power mod?

Yeah, the setting on the controller automatically turns the heating element off at a certain temperature set below the point first crack will occur. If charge temperature determines time to first crack, heating element cut off temp determines development time or to put it another way, time to the finish temp. If you turn the element off too early the roast doesn't get to the finish temp, which is another way of saying the ROR crashes. A low charge temp and longer roast would mean less momentum going into first so you have to balance when the element switches off with this momentum. If the charge temp gives you a faster roast than you'd want you can try to slow the roast down by reducing power or by increasing airflow later on, and maybe you'll want to do this to give the beans enough energy early in the roast to progress through first crack without the heating element being on if you find high temperatures late in the roast leads to defects. 

I haven't roasted many different coffees in it but I don't see why the settings wouldn't just be adapted to something appropriate. Alter batch size of the same bean and you obviously need different settings and switching beans would be no different.

I have done a power mod but my method was different. I'll try a soak method tomorrow I think, power down to maybe 30% to start and at TP back on but I don't know, might not work.

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This may be a little off-topic, but as we are talking about damper settings, control of heating, and airflow, I thought I would share an interesting video which I came across this week. This is Rob Hoos talking about airflow and it's impact on the roasting process.

Not sure how much is directly translatable to the Dalian, but there are some pretty interesting concepts which he covers in quite some detail. 

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Interesting stuff about the airflow in air roasters towards the end. 

I did the profiles today but haven't saved them as images so can't access them now.....they're not great. First one was a 250g batch at a charge temp of 190c that was ok but a little fast, heating element was barely on for that one. SD was set to 2 after 1:30 and then 3-4 later on, CA open through the roast. I then tried another 250g batch with lower charge temp and lower heat setting and it failed to get to first crack. I think the charge temp was fine but I probably lowered heat power to the element too soon. Third roast was 1.2kg and it was the first time I'd roasted the bean and got to first crack later than expected (at a higher temp). Charge temp was 220c and the 30% soak until just after TP didn't appear to have any negative effect on the roast and certainly there were no issues with it being too slow, the element was never on over 85% and not for long at that. Would have been a good roast had I not thought first crack was going to occur about 10c earlier than it did.

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So I experimented yesterday with switching the power off completely just before FC and coasting the rest of the way. Artisan graph below. (This is a honey-process pacamara from El Salvador and is causing me sleepless nights). Power went off around 30 seconds before FC (it's the purple line). Overall I was happy with the time to dry end as I wanted a longer drying time on account of the varietal and the processing method. I was also happy that the ET probe showed the air temp in the drum starting to level-off prior to FC. Not happy to see the BT readings go into free-fall once FC began! It was also interesting to see the BT probe measure another small rise in temp near the end, despite the elements being off for 3 minutes and with a moderate airflow. However, the lower ending heat seems to have reduced the visible charring on the beans and the Roast Vision reading of 18 (Medium) is the lightest I have managed so far on this bean.

Next time I try this approach I will reduce airflow a little more aggressively just as FC starts so as to try and reduce the heat loss. Will cup tomorrow and see how it tastes. Overall, I didn't quite get the result I was after as there is still some visible charring in the seams of the beans; but I'm certainly not calling it a failure :)

Any thoughts, observations, or suggestions will be gratefully received.

 

 

601 El Salvador.jpg

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Hi Rodney

after a crash like that the flick is inevitable. The crash most likely came because of the flat ROR before FC.

This bean is one of the most challenging ones I’ve had so far, being a Pacamara - it’s huge!! and the honey process lets it charr easily. I include 2 profiles one a quicker roast - with higher end temp the second a larger batch (1kg) where I slowed everything down (for me). The aim is to extend the maillard phase and to get enough development in the bean without burning the sugars. The latter roast is very promising - though I will give it a little less soak and slightly longer post FC time next.

The 1kg batch measured 26 on my Roast Vision.

5187364C-CB33-48DA-B518-5696EB0FDC8B.thumb.jpeg.b56e6100cef994d90de5d9d61472e0ae.jpeg


82A0C8BF-E2B9-4E3D-8219-6DABBDD891D3.thumb.jpeg.2c07118318825a91a886bd4d8b5ab39f.jpeg
 

Alternatively - you could just use “The Force” :) 

Cheers Phil

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