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Would a La Pav do it all?


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It's my 40th coming up, and i have been considering changing my whole setup to go to a lever, and flat burr grinder. The main reason is to have something different, and hopefully something that takes time to learn again. I don't necessarily want something easy and instantly rewarding. I don't think i would enjoy a DB setup so much more than what i have, and i like the tradition of lever machines. I will very likely buy new.

I thought i wanted a Londinium for a long time, but seeing the recent price hike / model change - i don't think i can justify it.

I did some research on the Profitec P800 which does look nice and i'm fairly sure would be a good machine. if i went this route, i might have to keep the Niche for a while.

Then i started to look at La Pav's - i never knew there were so many.... and it looks like it might really suit what i want. From what i can tell, i would want something like an Esperto as i would want the pressure gauges - but i don't hear of many people using these instead of Professional or Europicola models. Is this just a cheaper way to do it, if bought with a separate PPK? Does it matter which model if you decide you want the heat sink? i see that some models have a temp gauge - i'm not sure if i like that or not...

My main question though is, would it suit me;

  • i make mostly two milk based drinks a day, and sometimes up to 6 in row for guests
  • i don't mind a milk frothing challenge so long as i know it can be done to a high standard eventually.
  • i don't mind things taking time - its about 6 mins per cup currently.
  • i will run it form bottled water only

for what its worth, i am interested in pairing it with a Santos grinder, maybe after a bit more research though.

2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder
2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2
2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero
2020 - Londinium R + Niche Zero
Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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@richwade80 - I think most people wouldn’t buy an Esperto as it’s about a grand. Key benefits apart from the shiny metal eagle are the brew gauge and lever, but you get the same thing with a second hand one for £300 and the kit for £150 ish and a £5 temp strip?

Six back to back milk drinks would not be a fun time with my Europiccola... If you only have space for one machine maybe the P800 would be a better option or see if Londinium ever do that compact one which has been talked about for a few years?

Left field suggestion, get a second hand La Pav to kit out (easily stored out the way when not in use as light/small), along with the ECM flow control kit for your current machine? Let’s you try some bits which you could easily sell on if you change your mind or put the cash towards a super fancy flat grinder as well.

 

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La Pavs are great. I miss having one.

I agree with my Northern friend that doing six back to back drinks is iffy, heat management I would be the major concern. You can work around with heat sinks, temp strips, and cooling the grouphead, but it's always going to be an uphill struggle with what is a fundamental design limitation.

No experience with the Esperto... Pre-millennium Pro would be my choice, bigger boiler, and I believe some if not all come with the gauge (otherwise I believe it's an easy mod?).

As a left field alternative, how about a Cremina? Although a different league price-wise!

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would love a cremina, but it is quite a bit of coin. there is a compact Londinium already as far as the website says, but its mains feed only - that rules it out for me. its shame the current model is so much more...

6 back to back drinks probably happens once a year at best. Its basically always 2.

2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder
2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2
2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero
2020 - Londinium R + Niche Zero
Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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I think it’s different than the mains feed one available now.

Creminas do look lovely, but for that money I would really want a sprung lever and pump so I could clean the water tank outside the machine. My Pav gets tipped out upside over the sink every so often but I couldn’t do that with the Cremina.

https://www.home-barista.com/levers/londinium-compact-t59354-50.html

Edited by Northern_Monkey
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Yes, the law of diminishing returns must come into play with the Cremina - for nearly 10x the price of a new La Pav it was a bit of a silly suggestion on my part! I hadn't considered the maintainability aspect either, very practical point @Northern_Monkey.

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For 6 shots back to back, the La Pavoni is not the right tool for the job, definitely not! 

I'd say the La Pav is great for a 1 or 2 shots at a time. Leave it for a while, then come back again for another 2. 

There's nothing preventing you from doing 6 shots back to back (apart from the very possible fact you might run the boiler dry!) but it's not something I'd enjoy doing day in and day out. 

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Get a good second hand professional, fit a heat sink, Ppk ), single hole steam tip, naked portafilter and you will be set, will cope with multiple drinks and is very capable. Something like this

 

 

1EA45FFC-9144-477E-BDEF-5A9641D4BDC7.jpeg

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Love life, love my wife, I’m a great guy!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 15/07/2020 at 22:39, coffeechap said:

Get a good second hand professional, fit a heat sink, Ppk ), single hole steam tip, naked portafilter and you will be set, will cope with multiple drinks and is very capable. Something like this

 

 

1EA45FFC-9144-477E-BDEF-5A9641D4BDC7.jpeg

Lovely looking machine 👌🏻

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On 15/07/2020 at 16:29, richwade80 said:

6 back to back drinks probably happens once a year at best. Its basically always 2.

If it's basically always only 2 shots, then as far as I know, the La Pav is unbeatable for the price but I only drink espressos and someone else can talk more about frothing milk. 

It costed me more but I ended up buying a Gaggia Factory 105 and couldn't be happier, so perhaps that's something to consider. Performance wise I can't tell the difference from my previous Europiccola, I just enjoy the aesthetics of the Factory G105 and although I'm researching an upgrade for the sake of 'research' I plan on keeping the G105 once a suitable candidate is found.

Edit: I don't know about forum rules, but there's a La Pav going on ebay in 6 hours at £190 now, looks nice.

Edited by hotCUPPA
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thanks for all the comments - i'm glad i have time to think about a decision and it all helps.

i'm not getting a la pav for now. i think it is perhaps too far from what i really want next, and maybe something to save for another time.

anyway, an option has presented itself, so i am pursuing it...

2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder
2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2
2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero
2020 - Londinium R + Niche Zero
Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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