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New upgraded Lelit on the block - Elizabeth


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Just want to shout out to this forum, and DaveC in particular for being the main culprit for sending me into this crazy rabbit hole.

The Elizabeth + Niche combo is a really satisfying one (albeit quite daunting for a first-time espresso noob).

 

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Arrived it has... flushed it’s been.... coffee it made... I was dreading the two hole tip.... worked wonders for a first one!   just couldn’t take the case off (no time, was on lunch br

Ok, will do thanks - just wanted to double check I'd read it right! Now the journey begins to trying to make good coffee... Can't blame the kit 😂

I suppose I'll have a go then... The group of the Minima is very different to the group on the Elizabeth. Yes, it's a 58mm group, the portafilter and the group gasket is the same. And that's it.

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@stassinari In no time at all you will be wondering what all the fuss is about....It will be as easy as putting on a pair of comfortable slippers. Just follow the simple guidance from people here and all your shots are going to look/taste great.

 

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6 hours ago, stassinari said:

Just want to shout out to this forum, and DaveC in particular for being the main culprit for sending me into this crazy rabbit hole.

The Elizabeth + Niche combo is a really satisfying one (albeit quite daunting for a first-time espresso noob).

 

IMG_0215.jpg

Here here, but I think @MediumRoastSteam has a lot to answer for too! 

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Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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11 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?

I've a 18g ridgeless IMS (EDIT, VST!!) basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.

I'm loading in 16g of coffee.

Edited by Del
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1 hour ago, Del said:

I've a 18g ridgeless IMS basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.

I'm loading in 16g of coffee.

Good to know this.

Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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22 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Good to know this.

Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!

It's a VST Precision Filter Basket 18g. The coffee is blooming (pun intended) delicious too! 

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2 hours ago, Del said:

I've a 18g ridgeless IMS basket and got my first stuck puck in ages a few days ago on the first shot after doing a full backflush cycle. None since.

I'm loading in 16g of coffee.

 

26 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Good to know this.

Could you let me know the model of the basket when you have the chance? Thanks!

 

1 minute ago, Del said:

It's a VST Precision Filter Basket 18g. The coffee is blooming (pun intended) delicious too! 

I’m confused! Is it an IMS or VST basket?

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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10 minutes ago, Del said:

Ha! I want someone to disprove my experiment. I've been testing IMS 26.5h baskets - and I haven't had a stuck puck yet, no matter how hard I try! With a VST basket, I have to be careful not to have one. I'm conscious this is grinder and beans dependent, but the fact that the IMS baskets seem to effectively solve it kind of solve the issue for me, is something!

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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I'm using the stock basket, had no stuck pucks until I recently switched beans. Now about 25% of my pucks get stuck. I've the feeling that a finer grind causes more stuck pucks. I dose 16g of coffee, as i said stock basket and portfilter.

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37 minutes ago, bk85 said:

 I've the feeling that a finer grind causes more stuck pucks.

Of course it does. 🙂 - That's just physics. I was getting 99% of pucks stuck with Niche and light roasts, stock basket or VST. Went to Bella Barista, tried my machine there, with their grinder (Eureka Helios) for two hours. Not a single stuck puck. 🙂 

I can say confidently now that the IMS baskets I tested don't seem to cause stuck pucks. Very weird. 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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On 17/01/2021 at 17:01, arturhoo said:

Small update after ~1 month. Still very happy with the investment on the Elizabeth. I've managed to get consistent shots with the following routine:

1. Coffee ground into the Niche basket
2. Portafilter/basket fitted with a dosing funnel (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07R8ZRTGS/)
3. Coffee into the basket
4. Distribute the coffee with a wooden toothpick
5. Tap the portafilter twice in the mat
6. Distribute the coffee with a coffee distributor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077BZ4CV6/) - this also tamps it very slightly
7. Tamp using the 58.4 tamper

A bit involved but it doesn't take long and is definitely worth it in my case.

Quick video of yesterday's coffee:

 

Hiya, that's pretty much my routine as well. I haven't got a dosing funnel or the naked portafilter but grinding into the cup, invert onto the portafilter, little stir with a cocktail stick to even out the void, spinning with the Motta 58.5 leveller and tamp with the Motta 58.4 seems to get consistent results.

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On 19/01/2021 at 21:54, MediumRoastSteam said:

Has anyone in this fine club been getting stuck pucks with an IMS basket? If so, which one?

No, i upgraded to an IMS shortly after purchasing the machine and it's all been good. I got the Competitizione B68 2T H24.5. I usually dose 18g and there seems to be fair bit of headspace. Usually very minor residue left on the screen after pulling a shot.

On a similar but slightly unrelated note i unscrewed the twin spouts from the portafilter recently. I saw the spouts seemed a bit dirty and wasn't sure if it was coffee residue or not, figured they would be easier to clean if detached. Unscrewing took a fair bit of effort but getting it back on was a bit stressful. It seemed like it needed a final turn as there was still a bit of exposed thread and was a bit loose but couldn't even get a quarter turn. I had some threadlocker so just applied it and it's been fine since.

Ever since then the spent pucks have dropped out of the basket super easy, sometimes not even needing a tap. Coffee is unaffected and pucks are still firm and not soupy so i am not worried about this. Just a coincidence maybe?

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1 minute ago, spookydoo said:

Just a coincidence maybe?

most likely a coincidence - I'd say so.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Yeah whatever i did, after a backflush, first puck always sticks to shower screen. Does not matter how gently i twist and remove the portafilter.

Niche + VST 18 gram 18 gram filled tried with various beans and rested-unrested beans.

It does not bother anymore...

 

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I think I’ve done so much reading and videos that I’ve confused myself.

 

so I have the machine setup using daves settings and I’m now experimenting with my Niche to get the ideal recipe for medium/dark roast using book values. 

So I’m aiming to dose 18g in and 36g out or 8g in and 16g out.

if I use the 14 sec pre-infusion (option 2) bloom pre-infusion then Daves example mentions 24s (pump run) would this be too short or do I aim for 28-32 ish hence total 42s-46s total.

Also would it be same timing for a 8g single ?

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@BiggieBig  - Which VST baskets? I'm assuming you have an 18g and a 7g one?

It depends. You need to find what suits your taste. Personally, I think the pre-infusion adds very little to the overall time, as the shot will run faster after pre-infusion compared to if you didn't have it. So... 

For a 14s pre infusion, your overall shot time should around 35s or 40s. 

Now... For a dark or medium dark roast... You might be better off without pre-infusion. 🙂 - Maybe a 30s or 35s shot tops. 

Is it the same for an 8g in -> 16g out shot using the appropriate basket... Great question. I think so. When I had a VST 7g back in the day, it was hard work. Try it, see how it tastes. That's the best parameter. 

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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So... I've been bored recently... And I've been watching the temperature display on my machine and playing with PID parameters. The point of this post is not to say what is right or what's wrong, but just means of illustration of how each of them behave. All of them were tested with the machine in Eco mode, where only the brew boiler is on. All of those were gathered by simply watching the displayed temperature at a given point in time.

The target temperature was 93C or 200F.

I have compared mainly three PID settings:

Lelit's out of the box PID settings: P=2.0, I=0.04, D=1.0 (grey)
DavecUK suggested settings: P=0.2, I=0.07, D=10 (Green)
Clive Coffee Profitec 300 settings: P=1.5, I=0.01, D=11 (The Pro-300 which has a very similar configuration to the Elizabeth). (Blue)

Heat up times
Every day, in the morning, I monitored the temperature when heating up the machine from cold.

image.thumb.png.ee400350738c24e29e5ba4d5a92955e2.png

 

Recovery time

Recovery after an 18g -> 36g shot over approx. 37 seconds. Timings are as soon as the shot finishes.When the shot finishes, the machine displays the shot time for approx. 20s, and then an OK message for another few seconds. 

In order to have a better, more accurate results, I used the Fahrenheit scale as it's more precise. Unfortunately the Lelit does not show or allow any decimal places or at least half increments for the Celcius scale, which would've been helpful. Below is a quick conversion:

194F = 90.00C
195F = 90.55C
196F = 91.11C
197F = 91.66C
198F = 92.22C
199F = 92.77C
200F = 93.33C
201F = 93.88C
202F = 94.44C
203F = 95.00C
204F = 95.55C
205F = 96.11C
206F = 96.66C
207F = 97.22Cimage.thumb.png.06abce14c6853d2bb0e8eeecbef3adfa.png

Idling

I also plotted a chart of the temperature over time when the machine is idling. It's not worth putting the chart here as it is nothing to look at and adds no value. 

 

Have fun!

 

PS: @Paul_from_Oz - FYI.

 

Edited by MediumRoastSteam
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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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