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Gaggia Classic 2013 refurb


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Do people think the price might come down a bit now the world is moving more? What would we say is a good price for a refurb project in relatively good condition?

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The thread was started to gain best information for refurbishing a Gaggia Classic. The hope was to give newcomers a starting point if they wished to refurbish a Classic and for discussions of bes

Hi Everyone, I just made a topic to discuss what we know, what we don't, what we think - and what experiences we had so far - on the pressure gauges. Peter  

man do not get me started.  below tldr; someone taking the p*ss. i had one (3rd party on amazon) which to be fair did list a potentially long delivery time (3 weeks) which everybody was doing at

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1 hour ago, Dougieboy said:

Do people think the price might come down a bit now the world is moving more? What would we say is a good price for a refurb project in relatively good condition?

Buy a V2.

You will get a good machine (better than the other models in some regards, for a great price.

New enough to not need much more than a good clean.

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11 minutes ago, Blue_Cafe said:

Buy a V2.

You will get a good machine (better than the other models in some regards, for a great price.

New enough to not need much more than a good clean.

Is that the Sylvia you speak of Blue_cafe? I like prefer the look of these TBF 

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10 minutes ago, Dougieboy said:

Is that the Sylvia you speak of Blue_cafe? I like prefer the look of these TBF 

Ah, sorry, no.

I meant the Gaggia Classic V2 made from 2015-2018.

 

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7 minutes ago, Blue_Cafe said:

Ah, sorry, no.

I meant the Gaggia Classic V2 made from 2015-2018.

 

Oh yes, I’m with you now. I like the new red one they’re about to release. 

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On 01/07/2020 at 15:42, islandlad said:

I would say both are applicable. Needle flutter can indeed and obviously be dampened by oil/glycerin in the gauge housing. The source of the vibrations is however from the bourdon and capillary tube side of the gauge (both of which are not in fluid contact with the needle - it's the mechanical linkage which connects the needle to the bourdon tube). The way I see it, flow is not really applicable to a closed tube, purely because it is closed (unless you consider the minuscule back and forth flow associated with vibrations). But rather, exactly as you put it, "You might have heard of it in the scenario of dampening a compression (like a shock confined to a tube)". That is exactly what's happening in the capillary. Air can absorb and 'accommodate' that shock due to its compressibility, water or oil will simply transmit all that shock to the needle. Having said that, yes I have read of cases where capillary tubes have been filled with water without any problems - goes against my line of thinking but it clearly seems to work (unless used with a smooth rotary pump and not a vibration pump, which might make sense). Biggest issues seem to be when water and air coexist in the capillary tube (though usually solved by heating the tube).

No preaching intended :)

Hi islandlad. Can you tell us where you sourced your gauge and the capillary tube? Yours has an incredible number of capillary coils. I wonder whether this made the bgigest difference.

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1 hour ago, phario said:

Hi islandlad. Can you tell us where you sourced your gauge and the capillary tube? Yours has an incredible number of capillary coils. I wonder whether this made the bgigest difference.

I believe the length of the capillary tube shouldn't be the solution, as my kits assembled with a 10" tube with only 1 loop and in 7-8 cases out of 10 the needle is solid as the hour hand on the clock.

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2 hours ago, phario said:

Hi islandlad. Can you tell us where you sourced your gauge and the capillary tube? Yours has an incredible number of capillary coils. I wonder whether this made the bgigest difference.

Shockwaves on ebay, same as the majority of users on here I suspect.

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39 minutes ago, islandlad said:

Shockwaves on ebay, same as the majority of users on here I suspect.

So the question here is why he has cheaped out on the number of coils in comparison to before? Or does shockwaves have a particular reason for the design.

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I have emailed shockwaves via ebay with the following.

Quote

 

Hi there,

I recently made an order for two of your pressure gauges. There is quite a lot of discussion of your gauges on the coffeeforums.co.uk forum and in particular, some of us have noted that in recent times, it seems that the design of the gauges you sell have a significantly shortened capillary tube (the number of coils on the one I received is only around 5, but some people have 8, some people have 10+). Would you be able to comment on why this is and what has brought the change in design? 

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52816-gaggia-classic-2013-refurb/page/5/

Many thanks,

X

 

Hopefully we will get a response.

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Posted (edited)

So the nice thing is that shock_waves_shop provided a very fast and fairly honest response: 

Quote

This is currently depending on supply. It is proving very difficult for me to obtain capiliary tube at this time. Hopefully we always supply sufficient for the installation.

I need to have a think about what to do with my situation because I have only around 5-6 coils, and I believe this makes install really difficult. I may need to contact shock_waves_shop for guidance because I believe it does make it too short to ensure proper functionality. Here is a picture of mine (ignore the arrow). As you can see, there are five coils, and the fifth one would need to be stretched significantly to route the tube in a fashion that allows proper flow.

Look at how long the initial segment (before the coil) and the final segment (after the coil).

450940422_ScreenShot2020-07-06at13_07_51.thumb.png.95c49b42379eb6e13ed021a25be7fc21.png

Here are a few others. 

Looking at other people's tubes, I don't see how it's going to work in my case. I will need to stretch so that 3 coils will remain after I stretch the initial segment and final segment. 

Edited by phario
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On 25/06/2020 at 16:16, Michael87 said:

That gauge looks really good.

Incidentally I fitted a dimmer for the pump and raised the OPV to ~14bar as no longer needed, and my gauge (no fluid) is quite steady at 9bar now. 

So I'm wondering if the vibration is being caused by the OPV valve bouncing open and shut, rather than the pump itself. With the valve permanently shut (ie set to 14bar), I'm assuming the pressure waves from the pump are now being damped by the small air pockets in the boiler, rather than bouncing back off the OPV spring.

Just a theory at this stage.

I like this theory.

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Posted (edited)
On 25/06/2020 at 16:16, Michael87 said:

That gauge looks really good.

Incidentally I fitted a dimmer for the pump and raised the OPV to ~14bar as no longer needed, and my gauge (no fluid) is quite steady at 9bar now. 

So I'm wondering if the vibration is being caused by the OPV valve bouncing open and shut, rather than the pump itself. With the valve permanently shut (ie set to 14bar), I'm assuming the pressure waves from the pump are now being damped by the small air pockets in the boiler, rather than bouncing back off the OPV spring.

Just a theory at this stage.

So one way to think about this is to consider the rate that this is all happening. 

My understanding is that the needle flutter is happening at a much higher frequency than any dynamics (the "bouncing open and shut") that is occurring in the OPV (these flutters are the result of resonant interactions). Any movement of the OPV is very slow. In a related thread I've given some literature from the area of noise within fridges that indicate that the key aspect to examine is the formation of bubbles within the flow. It's likely that the dimmer changes the flow characteristics and hence these bubbles.

Basically, the pump vibration is happening at a much higher frequency than any change in the OPV. I don't think the OPV operation is the issue. That's of course not to say that pressure isn't involved in all this, but that I would be surprised if it has anything to do with the mechanical properties of the OPV itself.

This is really a poor testing bed to understand this phenomenon. What you really want is to do the experiment with the minimal components involved until you can replicate the phenomenon and understand the main contributor.

Edited by phario
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