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remnant24

Any 58.5mm leveler than isn't stupidly overpriced?

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Not with lines that are that sharp.

I'm tempted by the asso ones almost entirely because of looks but damn they are expensive.

Cheap ebay ones might go up to 58.55mm but they're unlikely to have the pronounced grooves you see on the more expensive counterparts. I doubt they can have a comparable effect simply because a lot of them are almost flat. Though maybe the effect isn't even positive and the less pronounced the groove the better. It's up for debate really. The OCD has been show to reduce EY but whether that translates into a better or worse taste is up for debate. 

The most expensive distribution tool I've managed to find is some Korean thing that looks like a faucet. Has a bunch of needles sticking out of it and you drop it into the basket and spin. I think it was about £300

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Yeah that's the feeling I got. Maybe it's a matter of them being too new and the Chinese knockoff market hasn't caught up yet. I suppose I should concede to spending a bit more time on my puck preparation for a few years and wait for that development, because there's no way I'm ever spending 100€+ on a hunk of moulded steel attached to a hunk of moulded plastic.

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9 minutes ago, remnant24 said:

Maybe it's a matter of them being too new and the Chinese knockoff market hasn't caught up yet.

There are a lot of 58.5mm levelers available from chinese manufacturers but they all come with such high tolerances it's not worth ordering. I suspect the time getting samples up to scratch with low enough defect rates to commit to a large order is a large part of why these things are priced as highly as they are.

What's your budget? Motta do a 58.4mm for ~35 EUR though it can be hard to come by (OOS currently, but often returns: https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/motta-adjustable-leveler-584mm-8333-p.asp)

 

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Black cat coffee sell the Motta leveler though they only have the red one in stock which is slightly more expensive at 28 quid. Only mentions 58mm not 58.4 though, so probably a lower tier version.

 

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/accessories/products/copy-of-motta-58mm-flat-bottom-wood-and-metal-tamper-1

 

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Gaggia Classic Chrome - Mignon Specialita 55

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1 hour ago, jj-x-ray said:

Black cat coffee sell the Motta leveler though they only have the red one in stock which is slightly more expensive at 28 quid. Only mentions 58mm not 58.4 though, so probably a lower tier version.

 

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/accessories/products/copy-of-motta-58mm-flat-bottom-wood-and-metal-tamper-1

 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for linking us. I can confirm they are the 58.5mm ones. 

We can also get them in carbon fibre style and a funky black and white design but they are a touch more expensive.

David

 

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

Fracino | Eureka | Motta | IMS

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3 minutes ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Thanks for linking us. I can confirm they are the 58.5mm ones. 

We can also get them in carbon fibre styke and a funky black and white design but they are a touch more expensive.

David

 

You're sure they're 58.5mm? Thought Motta only did 58 and 58.4mm.


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1 hour ago, catpuccino said:

You're sure they're 58.5mm? Thought Motta only did 58 and 58.4mm.

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

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there is also Lelit 58.55 mm levelling tool for 40 euro at lamacchinadelcaffe website


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, MaraXprofitec, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Niche Zero, Aergrind, IMS and VST baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, modded Gene Cafe CBR 101, BWT Bestmax PREMIUM V

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1 hour ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

Nice. Definitely update that on your website, had no idea they were available and at one time I was searching/would have bought one. Have an OCD V2 now else I'd buy it off you now.


Vesuvius + Niche Zero // V60 + MBK Aerspeed

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1 hour ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

For some reason i feel i need one... 😺

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16 hours ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

On my wish list now.

Just ordered a job lot of flour so it will have to wait I'm afraid☹️

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On 05/05/2020 at 20:19, BlackCatCoffee said:

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

Based on https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/motta-adjustable-leveler-584mm-8333-p.asp, and the fact that I can find many /585 but no /584 references online, I can't shake off the impression that 58.5 figure is them "rounding up" from 58.4. Any chance you could measure it for us?

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51 minutes ago, remnant24 said:

Based on https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/motta-adjustable-leveler-584mm-8333-p.asp, and the fact that I can find many /585 but no /584 references online, I can't shake off the impression that 58.5 figure is them "rounding up" from 58.4. Any chance you could measure it for us?

I did think about this but I do not have any calipers that can accurately measure at this size.

Given the quality of Motta products I am confident that it would be on spec however.

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Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

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Posted (edited)

Brilliant thread just ordered one from BlackCatCoffee , been looking for one of these for while , happy bunny .

I did put callipers on my Lelit Portafillter might be tight at 58.5mm but hopefully  OK.

 

Edited by Django57

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On 05/05/2020 at 19:19, BlackCatCoffee said:

Just dug one out to double check. Definitely 58.5mm on the box. 

IMG_20200505_191421.jpg

Thanks ordered mine yesterday from Blackcatcoffee.


Gaggia Classic 2006 @ 9 bar. Feld 47 Travel, Motta competition 58.4 tamper

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Hey folks. I have added some new products to the store that might be of interest to people that have commented on here.

Peak A Brew Distribution tool 58.4mm. This really is a beautifully machined tool and I do not have very many in stock!

peakabrew58.jpg.b51de20d58b00d90bc540bad17a94a0e.jpg

Possibly also of interest. Competition Coffee Walnut 58.5mm Tamper.

 

competition58.jpg.e7f0b66442c6a35c71bc864e94560445.jpg

 

Also added some IMS Competition Baskets.

 

David

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

Fracino | Eureka | Motta | IMS

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Ok I was really tempted u til I saw the price! Is worth twice the motta? Am tempted by a basket tho 🤔

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On 14/05/2020 at 15:23, HDAV said:

Ok I was really tempted u til I saw the price! Is worth twice the motta? Am tempted by a basket tho 🤔

Yeah they are quite a bit more. That said there is a lot more to it. Don't get me wrong the Motta ones really are lovely but there is some serious work gone in to these puppies. You know when you pick something up and it just oozes quality? That is how the Peak A Brew feels. 

Tempted to keep one to be honest!

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Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

Fracino | Eureka | Motta | IMS

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25 minutes ago, struttura.originaria said:

The best levellers in the market right now are (in my experience)

1) Bravo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjkKjoNjgCA

2) AssoCoffee

3) https://btcompany.imweb.me/

Yeah I would agree. Their positive effect is still debateable anyway. 

Anything with a very small surface area coming into the coffee to do the levelling is ideal for me. Most, if not all, of the cheap ebay ones have very poorly defined 'slopes' or 'fins' meaning much of the distributor is actually a flat surface that does little more than tamping. My theory is that the sharper the edges on these fins (like the asso jack leveller) the less coffee is impacted and the more it is moved around. I thought initially the wedge style distributors would naturally be better than multi-fin ones because there's one thin strip in the middle that compresses the coffee and then spinning flattens and distributes across the top, compared to three or four thick wedges that compress much more. In practice is seems coffee is forced outwards towards the edge of the basket and extractions start a touch earlier in the middle but are more consistent overall. I've got a multi-fin style distributor now (a good one though not as good as the asso I think) to test and so far so good. The OCD has really thick grooves compared to the much shallower knock offs, which should help them reach deeper into the basket. 

I suspect there's some kind of balance to be struck with the distributor tamping vs spreading grinds towards the outer edge of the basket as it is spun around. The OCD uses 4 deep wedges which compress quite a bit but obviously move a lot around too. The asso looks like it might do a slightly better job thanks to thinner edges -- a thin cross shape might be better than a thin 'chisel' style wedge but that's pure guess work. 

I would say there's not a lot of point agonising over a 58mm or 58.5mm leveller. The depth and sharpness of the wedges is probably much more important.

All that said my coffee hasn't improved a whole lot with using distributors vs simply tapping the portafilter to get a level bed, it's just a bit easier to get consistent results.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BlackCatCoffee said:

Yeah they are quite a bit more. That said there is a lot more to it. Don't get me wrong the Motta ones really are lovely but there is some serious work gone in to these puppies. You know when you pick something up and it just oozes quality? That is how the Peak A Brew feels. 

Tempted to keep one to be honest!

My Motta arrived today Blackcatcoffee, thanks for the surprise in the bag :). Daft question, is it adjustable I tried to twist it but its really stiff and doesnot budge. If it does which way do I twist it to reduce the height (dont want to over tighten it). Thank you.

Just managed it. Had a beer. That o ring is STIFF! All sorted now 😆💪💪

Edited by Bagpu55
More info

Gaggia Classic 2006 @ 9 bar. Feld 47 Travel, Motta competition 58.4 tamper

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2 hours ago, Bagpu55 said:

My Motta arrived today Blackcatcoffee, thanks for the surprise in the bag :). Daft question, is it adjustable I tried to twist it but its really stiff and doesnot budge. If it does which way do I twist it to reduce the height (dont want to over tighten it). Thank you.

Just managed it. Had a beer. That o ring is STIFF! All sorted now 😆💪💪

No worries. Glad you are sorted. I must admit I was a little surprised by how stiff they were at first, once you get it going it is a piece of cake.

Enjoy it.

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www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk

Coffee | Equipment | Accessories | Service & Repair

Fracino | Eureka | Motta | IMS

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Posted (edited)
On 15/05/2020 at 17:05, Rob1 said:

I would say there's not a lot of point agonising over a 58mm or 58.5mm leveller. The depth and sharpness of the wedges is probably much more important.

That first part at least, is empirically false. Right now I'm using a ~58.3mm leveller (the cheapest I could find on AliExpress 2 years back) with an E&B Lab basket, and if I use it as you typically would, some of the edge of the puck remains unlevelled, plus grounds get caught in the screw area of the leveller, which doesn't happen with a classic basket. It's this first hand experience of the issue that's led me to start this thread to begin with.

I can get around it by putting in some more work, but I don't want to. The quality of espresso was never the issue, just the time it takes to prepare it.

Edited by remnant24
Typos

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