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Lubricating Group


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@np123I backflushed an E61 group yesterday with cleaner and then lubricated the cam using the very helpful guide you put out there. I have noticed though that its still sticking a bit and is clunky feeling. My guess is its the the pins potentially - would that ring true to you?

I noted on the guide it says you can lubricate them with some silicone spray - is this the same silicone spray id use on my car etc? Secondly, is it better to take the bottom of the group out to remove the pins and lubricate - do people do that or is it better to do that from above. 

 

I was sent this question via pm but thought other forum members may benefit from diagnosis and replies should they get a similar problem.

I assume you mean the video I put on Wikidot com? http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication

I don't remember recommending silicon spray, what guide are you talking about, as I might need to go and update it?

It's very difficult to advise you as I have no idea how old the group is, photos and a clear idea of the problem. You guess that it's the "pins" I assume you mean cam followers. Perhaps, perhaps not, if it's a 6 month old group, probably not. What exactly is happening, when does it stick?

Nothing here...

 

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10 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

I was sent this question via pm but thought other forum members may benefit from diagnosis and replies should they get a similar problem.

I assume you mean the video I put on Wikidot com? http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication

I don't remember recommending silicon spray, what guide are you talking about, as I might need to go and update it?

It's very difficult to advise you as I have no idea how old the group is, photos and a clear idea of the problem. You guess that it's the "pins" I assume you mean cam followers. Perhaps, perhaps not, if it's a 6 month old group, probably not. What exactly is happening, when does it stick?

hi Dave,

Thanks. this is the bit I was reading on that guide.

The actual lubrication is done with a Cocktail stick (as the stuff is hard to wash off fingers) and is in the places marked with the red arrows. It is also a good idea to remove the cam itself (it just snaps out) and lubricate the area at the back of the cam, it should be obvious when you remove it. The reason the barrel is lubed and not the spindle is to prevent excess lubricant being pushed off the spindle into the cam chamber and hence into the coffee. It's also the reason why you only lubricate the inner 1cm of so of the tube with a cocktail stick and do it at the side shown! If you suspect the movement of the pins which open and close the infusion and pre-infusion valve (A and B), is not free, especially under the slight lateral force exerted by the cam (temporarily place the lever on the end of the cam spindle and move the cam to determine this). Try a very quick spray of pure silicone oil, move the lever so a pin is depressed and try to spray past the pin into the area where the valve pin slides (infusion and pre-infusion valve). This will gradually wash through and help free up the valves. In time they will free up, but this can accelerate the process (a few clean water backflushes and a bit of water run through the group will remove a lot of the excess silicone oil3

Its only a 3 month old group so not old or anything its more that maybe its not as fluid as it felt prior to cleaning and lubrication.

 

 

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I perhaps need to mod that last bit. If the group is only 3 months old and you have not abused the hell out of it the "pins" (cam followers) shouldn't be worn and shouldn't cause "catching". Did you reassemble it correctly?

Nothing here...

 

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38 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

I perhaps need to mod that last bit. If the group is only 3 months old and you have not abused the hell out of it the "pins" (cam followers) shouldn't be worn and shouldn't cause "catching". Did you reassemble it correctly?

Well I'm now starting to doubt myself! I start off in the neutral/halfway position. When it goes back in, the cam is in the middle, so in front of the pins so to speak. Its a definite stiffness on putting the lever back down I would say. i can make a video to show you where, but its purely on feel. Doesnt feel like a lubed cam. 

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On 20/04/2020 at 14:27, DavecUK said:

Was it completely dry when you lubed it?

So I wanted to take some time to check this thoroughly. Have taken cam out, dried both the cam and the inside of the chamber. Put excessive lubricant on there to eliminate that from the equation. Still stiff going back down. Does feel like potentially the 'pins' arent moving as freely as before using cleaner (is this even possible?). Is this common, or is there a way to lubricate this moving part so I can see if that helps at all? 

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Dismantle the bottom part of the group as well, check it's clean and that nothing is jamming, lubricate a bit in there as well.

 

Also take that cam out and get a few good shots of those cam followers.

Nothing here...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/04/2020 at 14:09, DavecUK said:

Dismantle the bottom part of the group as well, check it's clean and that nothing is jamming, lubricate a bit in there as well.

 

Also take that cam out and get a few good shots of those cam followers.

Just to follow up on this. I took the very bottom part of the group off, and re-seated it. Whatever it did sorted it as its now smooth as anything. Thanks guys. 

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Hi all, 

To tag on this topic, I just did my first E61 chemical backflush + cam lubrication, and everything went well. However, I feel that there is more resistance pushing the lever down, as opposed to lifting it up. Is this normal, or am I overreacting?

Forgot how the lever action felt prior to dismantling...

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Hi all, 
To tag on this topic, I just did my first E61 chemical backflush + cam lubrication, and everything went well. However, I feel that there is more resistance pushing the lever down, as opposed to lifting it up. Is this normal, or am I overreacting?
Forgot how the lever action felt prior to dismantling...

If you “feel” a friction type resistance, it might be you didn’t lubricate the pins well enough.

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1 hour ago, MediumRoastSteam said:


If you “feel” a friction type resistance, it might be you didn’t lubricate the pins well enough.

Thanks again for the quick reply. I repeated the process, and made sure that there was sufficient grease covering the surroundings of the cam & pin contact point. Feels much better now!

Hope I don't taste Molykote in my coffee..

 

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