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Northern_Monkey

Lelit Bianca flow paddle kit on a Mara - profiling examples and benefits?

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Hi,

After playing around with preinfusion after getting a La Pav, using typically a 2-4 bar to first drips, then a ramp to 7 and a gradual drop at the end of the shot) it has made me pretty curious about trying it with my pump machine. 

I was thinking about adding the Bianca flow paddle to my Mara for lighter roasts. Using the E61 lever partial lift to get a trickle of water from the group made a surprising difference on some coffees I've had.  I clean my machine on a regular basis, have a SJ and currently make what I think is quite nice coffee, but I do wonder how much of a difference it would make in terms of taste or extraction?

If anyone has any articles, posts with sample profiles or feedback I would be really interested in seeing what they recommend.

Thanks again.

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I did a whole review on the Bianca, videos n all. Might be useful to you. I also reviewed the paddle system and installed on a Minima and did reviews of that as well. Oh just seen the post before mine. The comment of Rotary is definitely better is not really the issue, in terms of quietness yes but other than that it makes little difference and the paddle on a vibe pump machine may be even better in terms of the pump longevity compared to rotary.

The main issue is going to be the system on an HX rather than a dual boiler and the fact that the group itself is hotter than on a dual boiler, so a quite a  different dynamic with respect to temperature throughout the shot. I would say the paddle systems, or any profiling is much more suited to dual boilers, rather than standard HX units.

Edited by DavecUK
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 My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/ - Various Machines and grinders, Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster: YouTube channel at https://tinyurl.com/szhgxzl .......

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@KingoftheHeath - Cheers for the link, he was quite brave with the group head drilling! I would wuss out on that and use the pressure gauge on the front of the grouphead instead. Nice pics though, so it is clear that the paddle fits between the wooden knobs etc.

@DavecUK Thanks, I will take another look at them. They were very detailed if I remember and showed things like setting the left close point on the paddle to get the most range.

I haven't had any problems with temperature so far (or not that I can tell) based on your flushing volume guidelines from the BB manual/review, so haven't needed a temp strip really. The combination of extra space and added maintenance with a DB rules it out in the near future unfortunately.

Well, food for thought in terms of how much benefit it would give and whether the cost justifies a punt or not...

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I love the paddle on the Minima. The other day I coarsened the grind and pulled a shot at 6 bar just to see what all the fuss is about. I find for lighter roasts it is excellent, with Hasi's Sigri I've been able to use different profiles to get different flavour balances, one day forward with tomato, the next forest fruits acidity. I've settled on a profile now that delivers both with a bit of earthy pungency, presumably because I changed the opv to allow 10 bars. With darker roasts it probably won't be that useful, except for maybe to effectively lower or raise pressure if you switch back and forth between two different beans.  

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ACS Minima (Beta) with Bianca Paddle -- Reskinned Ceado E8, Niche Zero --- Gene Cafe CBR101 with Dimmer Mod and Bean Mass Probe

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39 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

Yup Minima likes a good paddle...mine does anyway.

 

3o67ky.jpg

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Vesuvius + Niche Zero // V60 + MBK Aerspeed

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Well I decided to give it a go and get the gauge/valve/spring/paddle kit from lamacchinadelcaffe and it’s In the post now.

Fingers crossed it’s going to add a bit more for the lighter roasts and flexibility in switching brew pressures without having to open up the machine. Fingers crossed! 🤞 

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Well I decided to give it a go and get the gauge/valve/spring/paddle kit from lamacchinadelcaffe and it’s In the post now.
Fingers crossed it’s going to add a bit more for the lighter roasts and flexibility in switching brew pressures without having to open up the machine. Fingers crossed!  

Looking forward to hearing how it goes and maybe considering for mine. Thanks for taking one for the (Mara) team!


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Lelit Mara 62, Niche Grinder, Decent Espresso tamper, V60, CCD, Aeropress, French Press, Moka pot, Kinu M47, Feldgrind, Porlex Mini, Kawasaki Versys 650 mk1

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Looking quite promising so far actually, in terms of tasting different things than using the default 9.5 bar.

Load on the pump with paddle fully open to the right is about 5 bar from the body gauge. Max flow is about 4.8 ml per second, measured from a 10 second run with no portafilter.

Ran out my normal cooling flush of the group. Had a few shots today with 17.5g of mystery 11 from coffee compass, held at 2 bar for 10 seconds and then ramped up to six for about 25 seconds. Ended up with 40g out as I’ve been liking the longer shots with this coffee before fitting the kit.

Taste difference with same dose, grams out and grind setting was a bit sweeter, fruitier and more cocoa then previously. Slightly thinner body but even more crema than before.

Obviously lots more fiddling required in terms of variables but it doesn’t seem to be like a complete waste of money at this stage! Which I am pleased about 😅

Well I have a nice sounding natural coffee on the way so it will be fun to see how that goes.

49526293471_1f3dc2812c_b.jpg

 

Edited by Northern_Monkey
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@Northern_Monkey looks great in all wood

how are you getting on with the profiling? 

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The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Aergrind, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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@Stanic Still enjoying it, better results than when I first fitted the kit. Interesting to see how the pressure in the group drops as the puck dissolves. Also using a 2 bar step has reduced the chance of channeling.

Combinations I’ve tried so far, for 17.5g in and 40g out over about 35-40 seconds:

- 2bar preinfusion and then a ramp up to 6bar and kept constant by moving the paddle right

 - 2bar preinfusion and then a ramp up to 6bar and declining pressure with paddle in the same spot

 - 2bar preinfusion and a ramp up to 9bar and decline

 - Gradual ramp up 2-4-6-8bar then decline

So far the gradual ramp up through the range is giving the sweetest and tastiest results, still fruitier with more cocoa. Can be a bit tricky with the manual adjustments not to under or overshoot with the paddle.

Any other suggestions in terms of flow profiles to use, or how they emphasise particular flavours?

The lighter roast natural processed coffee I bought has now rested enough to try out tomorrow morning, so need to give it another go to see how it goes.

Edited by Northern_Monkey
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Thanks!

interesting observations about the drop of pressure towards the end of the shot..I was just thinking that maybe the slow and low PI of mara x (as advertised) and setting the OPV to desired top pressure would create a nice profile, and with a declining pressure it is even better, even without the paddle

Edited by Stanic
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The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Aergrind, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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@Stanic Interesting to see how it would compare with the Mara x.

Unless I’ve got the wrong end of the stick almost all machines have a pressure drop at the end as the coffee is dissolved/suspended in the pull.

The only way it would not drop is if the machine auto adjusts the flow or pressure to accommodate having less resistance in the coffee bed.

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yeah I realise now the paddle is useful for lowering the flow towards the end..haven't touched a pump machine for some time lol

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The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air, Aergrind, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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I've read articles talking about the Slayer machine where a pre-infusion at 3 bar was used. One (I think it was a cafe owner talking) said they pre-infuse at 3 bar till there's 6 grams in the cup then ramp to 6.5bar. I've only done this once or twice so can't give much insight on taste, but remember it being a very nice and syrupy shot which accentuated chocolate flavours (it was a primarily a chocolatey coffee). Don't know what it would do to a fruity coffee, will try that this evening maybe.

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