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Should Big Ben chime to celebrate leaving?

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24 minutes ago, Mr Binks said:

Apparently not, and I don’t hold a German birth certificate, it’s a British consular birth certificate. Welcome to the joys of far right nationalist viewpoints in good old GB, a nationalism that has been fuelled by the whole Brexit process.

This seems really odd.
 

First my brother was in the army he and wife british the 2 children born in Germany British 

Second Isis bride baby born think it was syria they said her child was a British national

I accept the UK government do odd things like windrush not sure what you have tried but maybe worth contacting your mp 


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Just seen Mark Francois announce that hopefully, tomorrow he is launching a crowdfunding page to cover the cost for those who want to celebrate and don't mind chucking a few pence into the ring. He said rather gleefully, that the £500,000 figure was perhaps a bit on the high side as the calculations had been done by those who did not want to celebrate anyway.

I suspect the required level will be reached rather quickly!

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2 minutes ago, dfk41 said:

Just seen Mark Francois announce that hopefully, tomorrow he is launching a crowdfunding page to cover the cost for those who want to celebrate and don't mind chucking a few pence into the ring. He said rather gleefully, that the £500,000 figure was perhaps a bit on the high side as the calculations had been done by those who did not want to celebrate anyway.

I suspect the required level will be reached rather quickly!

Drat... i had thought after his offer to ring the bell himself he would have found a way convince the erg to pay for us.... i bet Jacob would pay most of it ? 


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9 minutes ago, Border_all said:

This seems really odd.
 

First my brother was in the army he and wife british the 2 children born in Germany British 

Second Isis bride baby born think it was syria they said her child was a British national

I accept the UK government do odd things like windrush not sure what you have tried but maybe worth contacting your mp 

What I am pointing out is the frankly ridiculous levels of Shite I have had thrown my way in the past by so called nationalists. I know that by law I am British, it says so on my passport and my birth certificate, there are those though that will claim otherwise, stating that I’m not English because I wasn’t born here and my nationality has to be British and then there’s the real nut jobs who claim that unless I was born in the U.K. my credentials are questionable. Being a Brit and having someone say “how dare you comment, you weren’t even born here” is quite frankly the most surreal thing I have ever experienced, at first I thought the person was taking the piss, it wasn’t until they continued with the epically pro Britain rant that I realised they were serious.  

Edited by Mr Binks

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Just now, Mr Binks said:

What I am pointing out is the frankly ridiculous levels of Shute I have had thrown my way in the past by so called nationalists. I know that by law I am British, it says so on my passport and my birth certificate, there are those though that will claim otherwise, stating that I’m not English because I wasn’t born here and my nationality has to be Bristow and then the real but jobs who claim that unless I was born in the U.K. my credentials are questionable. Being a Brit and having someone say “how dare you comment, you weren’t even born here” is quite frankly the most surreal thing I have ever experienced, at first I thought the person was taking the piss it wasn’t until they continued with the epically pro Britain rant that I realised they were serious.  

Ahhh.... got you as a remain voter I have sadly witnessed this myself though it’s doubtful if many who voted leave are that way inclined.... least i hope not


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40 minutes ago, Mr Binks said:

Apparently not, and I don’t hold a German birth certificate, it’s a British consular birth certificate. Welcome to the joys of far right nationalist viewpoints in good old GB, a nationalism that has been fuelled by the whole Brexit process.

What's "Far right" about National pride though Mr Binks?  Surely arguing such is an absurd argument bandied about by the Far Left.  The stupidity of this extremist viewpoint is evidenced for example where a femaile Labour politician recently ranted about a St George's flag flown outside a household, linking it to extremist "far right" views.  When the truth came out about why it was being flown, she had to back down and apologise.  Countless examples like this have occurred during this messy campaign.  No-one moans when first generation Scots fly the flag of St Andrew, or you see a Cornish flag flying when in Cornwall.  We all have every right to be proud of our own nations, just not those governing them.  Nationalism  is not a dirty word and never should have been.  Insinuating otherwise is a flawed modern leftist concept. Good for you if you identify as English and take pride in that.  If you don't or don't much care either way, like most remainers holding that view, then it's no argument against Nationalism. There's nothing Right Wing about being Nationalistic.  Too many deliberately conflate that with facism, which it is not.

Edited by Bica60s

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Well @Mr Binks

If you experience any such problems on here, let us know please. It is a fine line between banter and going too far. We cannot be held responsible for the actions of the idiots, and there are always plenty of them around.......

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2 minutes ago, Bica60s said:

What's "Far right" about National pride though Mr Binks?  Surely arguing such is an absurd argument bandied about by the Far Left.  The stupidity of this extremist viewpoint is evidenced for example where a femaile Labour politician recently ranted about a St George's flag flown outside a household, linking it to extremist "far right" views.  When the truth came out about why it was being flown, she had to back down and apologise.  Countless examples like this have occurred during this messy campaign.  No-one moans when first generation Scots fly the flag of St Andrew, or you see a Cornish flag flying when in Cornwall.  We all have every right to be proud of our own nations, just not those governing them.  Nationalism  is not a dirty word and never should have been.  Insinuating otherwise is a flawed modern leftist concept.

I’m going to assume that you have never met a true far right nationalist, you know, the sort that stab politicians to death in the street because they don’t agree with their pro Europe stance......

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2 minutes ago, dfk41 said:

Well @Mr Binks

If you experience any such problems on here, let us know please. It is a fine line between banter and going too far. We cannot be held responsible for the actions of the idiots, and there are always plenty of them around.......

It’s quite ok, I rather good at fighting those battles myself. I just find it alarming that those sorts of attitudes exist and if they can be levelled at me then god help anyone who isn’t legitimately born British. As I said it is the one thing that has left a bad taste in my mouth about the whole Brexit issue, it was hijacked by those same right wing nut jobs and used as their rallying cry. 

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1 hour ago, filthynines said:

I can't tell whether you were criticising my position or not. But if you were, or if anybody has looked at it in other than a positive light then I have this to say:

Please tell me what else I'm meant to hang my hat on? I voted to remain in the European Union for one reason only: the burden of proof was on those looking to change the status quo and nobody could persuade me that leaving was better than remaining. Not one reason resonated with me, even to the extent it could be made out with evidence.

At the end of this month we leave the European Union; against my wishes, but inevitable in any event so that's besides the point. Still, nobody has fleshed out what it will actually look like for the UK. I could repeat what dozens of experts have said about the unsavoury position we are in, but that's irrelevant too, because it's where we are.

So, the best I can hope for, is that in a reasonable period of time - say, ten years - I will see the fruits of these labours and I will be happy with them. Or, perhaps, I'll at least see where we're heading and be happy with the general direction. Nobody should now be wasting breath trying to persuade anybody that things will be better or things will be worse. Effort should now be focused on action, and a great deal of it. 

If anybody expects more than that from me, or anybody else who wasn't keen on leaving in the first place, then I don't understand where they're coming from at all. A lot of people do not know what they don't know. That's a worrying position to be in. The sooner this is recognised by all politicians, the sooner I will be a lot happier with this whole scenario.

No. I just added the comment about words used as an illustration of their use and it does influence people. Also mutterings like well we beat them in the war and a lot of other very similar in one way or the other things.

I voted to remain even though I was pretty sure long ago that we were leaving as they were clearly achieving their aim. I feel much the same as you actually just disgusted with the effort to persuade people to remain and years of certain types of media coverage that don't explain why. Remain politicians do have a bit of a problem explaining why it's likely to be a good idea to remain in. It's down to the way the world is and aspects they can do nothing about. That probably relates to the tendencies that in out vote prefernces tend to have to age groups.

Noticed a post from some one born in Germany. I suppose that it could be seen like that but it isn't. It's another numbers game again. Say some % of the populate have leanings in a racist way. It can gain votes and may encourage others, some who were silent aren't any more it might suddenly appeal to some. Rather a lot of us aren't racist at all in any respect.

John

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Edited by ajohn

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14 minutes ago, Mr Binks said:

I’m going to assume that you have never met a true far right nationalist, you know, the sort that stab politicians to death in the street because they don’t agree with their pro Europe stance......

Who defines that maniac as a "nationalist"?  Even if he did himself, that's not what defines being nationalistic.  He was a murdering scumbag using thinly veneered terms out of true context.  Trouble is that in doing so, anyone then flying a flag gets branded as a racist or facist.  It's just a ridiculous argument to make.

 

You, and presumably the moderator, have completely misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I abhor facism and fascist views of any sort but would argue that it is mis-use of the word "Nationalist" to describe extremists.  I mean no offence to you at all and wasn't trying to cause offence.

Edited by Bica60s

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17 minutes ago, Bica60s said:

Who defines that maniac as a "nationalist"?  Even if he did himself, that's not what defines being nationalistic.  He was a murdering scumbag using thinly veneered terms out of true context.  Trouble is that in doing so, anyone then flying a flag gets branded as a racist or facist.  It's just a ridiculous argument to make.

 

You, and presumably the moderator, have completely misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I abhor facism and fascist views of any sort but would argue that it is mis-use of the word "Nationalist" to describe extremists.  I mean no offence to you at all and wasn't trying to cause offence.

Wasn’t one of our best known far right nut job organisations called the British National Party?  Not to mention that other group of stalwart multiculturalists the National Socialist German Workers Party. Like it or not for a number of reasons nationalism has been associated with a certain type of person.

Edited by Mr Binks

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Like anything else though, people like that hijack terms to suit their own narrative.  There are plenty of right minded, perfectly decent people who also hold lets say more old fashioned gentlemanly views and this is what I mean by being Nationalist...proud of their sovereign nation, queen and country and of their roots and culture.  They are not the sort to support or abide the lunatics and nut jobs of the Far Right who you refer to.  No right minded person is.  Lets look at this another way...does the same thing apply to the armed forces  or the cub scouts or girl guides for that matter?...all of them swear allegiance to the queen and their sovereign nation.  That doesn't make them Far right nut jobs.  Can't you see what the Far Right have tried to do here? They have hijacked the terms to lay claim to something that they have no right to in anyone else's name.  That is why we have these associations but it doesn't make them right and certainly shouldn't make them definitive.  

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3 minutes ago, Bica60s said:

Like anything else though, people like that hijack terms to suit their own narrative.  There are plenty of right minded, perfectly decent people who also hold lets say more old fashioned gentlemanly views and this is what I mean by being Nationalist...proud of their sovereign nation, queen and country and of their roots and culture.  They are not the sort to support or abide the lunatics and nut jobs of the Far Right who you refer to.  No right minded person is.  Lets look at this another way...does the same thing apply to the armed forces  or the cub scouts or girl guides for that matter?...all of them swear allegiance to the queen and their sovereign nation.  That doesn't make them Far right nut jobs.  Can't you see what the Far Right have tried to do here? They have hijacked the terms to lay claim to something that they have no right to in anyone else's name.  That is why we have these associations but it doesn't make them right and certainly shouldn't make them definitive.  

I fully agree with you but the fact is it has happened and there is not a great deal that can be done to undo it, in the same respect that gay used to mean happy, rainbows used to just be colourful things in the sky and swastikas used to be a Hindu symbol for prosperity and good luck, words and images become adopted by organisations and then their use of it becomes the accepted norm.

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Apropos nothing in particular: It amazes me sometimes (no names, no pack drill) how intelligent people can quite openly use such huge and sweeping generalisations to put down and denigrate others (and others arguments) yet be so casually accepting about their own (and their supporters) arguments/views. ( I don't specifically mean in this thread although possibly some examples)

Examples:
Leave/Remain voters are idiots...
Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for...
(This in my memory was generally a Remainer claim but almost certainly could be used both ways 
And in any case would no doubt be true for EVERYBODY if it was modified slightly to
"No voters KNEW EXACTLY what they were voting for"

My main annoyance at this argument is the implication of "THEY didn't know/understand what they were voting for BUT (the implication is) that I/WE DID know what I/WE were voting for

I personally believe that many voters made an assessment of what L/R meant and voted for that - they might all have been wrong - BUT I do believe that some voters (both sides) just voted on "instinct": for good or bad that's what democracy is..... you don't need a specific qualification/mental ability etc to vote)     
The Leave/Remain campaign lied...
The Leave/Remain campaign exceeded budget restrictions...
Project Fear - This encapsulates lying/exagerating/idiot etc all in one phrase..
(All) Leave voters are racist/facist/right-wing/uncaring...
alongside
(All) Leave voters did it to "stop immigration"
(All) Remain voters are (various shades of) Left wing loony/Commie/Socialist/Terrorist sympathisers 
(All) L/R voters are selfish (voting for "themselves" not future generations)

(Obviously some Leave voters ARE racist/facist/ etc - and that is (one) reason they voted Leave
Equally obviously some Remain voters ARE racist/facist/ etc - albeit that might not be (one) reason they voted Remain.
I suspect quite a lot of L/R voters are racist/left-wing/facist/commie/etc etc - it's quite likely as the vote was fairly "close" - therefore I expect "all sorts" voted both ways.

I equally suspect that any other label could be pretty equally applied to both L/R voters... for the same reason.)

Just because "someone" describes themselves as "something" doesn't make it true....
The Peoples Democratic Republic of XXXXX - Very rarely is (Democratic)
I often think it is worth remembering that the Apartheid Regime in South Africa (abhorrent as it was) was MORE democratic than ANY of the "Democratic Republics of......." (SOME people had a meaningful vote) So "democracy" isn't black & white (Sorry no pun intended).

Ditto Nationalist/Socialist etc etc

Were the (Afgan*) mujahideen "Freedom fighters" or "Terrorists" 

(* I mean the ones we supported/paid for fighting Soviet occupation not the more generic/historic use as a sort of Muslim equivalent to (now equally mis-used/mis-appropriated) crusader....

Were the Republican & Nationalist paramilitaries "Freedom fighters" or "Terrorists"......

I could go on............ but realise no one will even reach this far........ 


 

 

 

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3 hours ago, dfk41 said:

We Brits do have some funny ideas, I quite agree with you. We have been raped and pillaged by many different countries over the centuries, ......

I think you meant to write  ... we have raped and pillaged many different countries over the centuries... or are you still getting over the Vikings  

 

 

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Jesus! is this thread still going, 

 

piss.png

Edited by jimbojohn55
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25 minutes ago, Nikko said:

I think you meant to write  ... we have raped and pillaged many different countries over the centuries... or are you still getting over the Vikings  

 

 

I meant exactly what I said boyo, and do not need your help in constructing sentences. Nice to see you snipe from your little hidden hole again. I am sure many miss your input.....

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25 minutes ago, jimbojohn55 said:

Jesus! is this thread still going, 

 

piss.png

Haha Jim, and nearly in an adult way! HAs deviated a little along the journey but all in all, it has been a fun thread! 

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29 minutes ago, jimbojohn55 said:

Jesus! is this thread still going, 

 

piss.png

There are more important things to wonder about, for instance why is it that two of them have felt the need to take their trousers off completely just to take a waz?

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I thought that was normal!

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6 minutes ago, Mr Binks said:

There are more important things to wonder about, for instance why is it that two of them have felt the need to take their trousers off completely just to take a waz?

If you look closely Big Ben is the big chap on the Far Right and he has managed to piss through his own window ?

Edited by jimbojohn55
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2 hours ago, Mr Binks said:

I fully agree with you but the fact is it has happened and there is not a great deal that can be done to undo it, in the same respect that gay used to mean happy, rainbows used to just be colourful things in the sky and swastikas used to be a Hindu symbol for prosperity and good luck, words and images become adopted by organisations and then their use of it becomes the accepted norm.

OK you got me....Rainbows? New one on me, are we not allowed to use that word for some reason (why?)

 

P.S. I obviously have not woken up....or is it woke from the American vernacular.

Edited by DavecUK
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There are more important things to wonder about, for instance why is it that two of them have felt the need to take their trousers off completely just to take a waz?


My brother does this still.... he’s 33


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6 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

OK you got me....Rainbows? New one on me, are we not allowed to use that word for some reason (why?)

 

P.S. I obviously have not woken up....or is it woke from the American vernacular.

Well they used to be just rainbows, now if you were to paint one on your house people might assume that you are a friend of Dorothy so to to speak.

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