Jump to content
les24preludes

Which pourover - V60, Chemex, Kalita, other..?

Recommended Posts

Having taken a break from my Gaggia in favour of the Aeropress I'm curious to try a pourover method. The most discussed seem to be V60, Chemex, Kalita, plus various single hole designs similar to the original Melitta. Shootouts place them all quite close, and the winner could be any of them. The quality of the paper filters is a factor, and so is the price of these consumables plus the option of going cloth or metal. As a single user the V60 and Kalita are attractive. It could also be the case that the Aeropress is as good or better than any of these. 

Can you guys share your experiences of as many of these methods you've tried, and how you rated them? Need some feedback before committing here. 

Edited by les24preludes

Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defo try standard V60 with o2 dripper size I love mine and super easy. What hand grinder you have


SAGE IS NOT A UPGRADE

 

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My grinder is a Mazzer Major so no worries there, plus I have all the standard coffee making equipment.

I may start with a cheap Melitta cone - not a very big ledge to talk me off of. 


Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

V60 o2 is £5 and 100 paper's are £4.50 and drip in a big mug or glass.


SAGE IS NOT A UPGRADE

 

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been drinking exclusively drip for a while now.  I went into V60 first, and quite enjoyed it.  Lots of control, but on the downside, lots of control!  I've had a Clever for ages, which is really easy to use, but I felt a good V60 beat it.  In my opinion, don't waste time on porcelain, glass or metal V60s, just go straight for the plastic, it's the best and cheapest.

Nowadays, I'm using a Kalita Wave, which I prefer to V60, and seems to be half way between Clever and V60 in terms of the effect of my skill/cockups.  A secondary bonus is that the papers from my chosen 185 also fit my Behmor Brazen when I want to make a larger brew.  The papers are a bit more expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wintoid thinking getting the Behmor 2.o from hasbean is it worth getting.

 

Jony


SAGE IS NOT A UPGRADE

 

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jony mine is a Brazen Plus, so I've no idea what the 2.0 has changed.  I only use the Brazen when making coffee for several people, otherwise I would always choose the Kalita.  I don't think the Brazen could even make a single cup.  Of course, you can make more, and it will stay warm for a few hours, but I think a Kalita tastes better anyway.

So I definitely don't regret getting my Brazen, it's a great bit of kit.  I've only ever used it with the Kalita 185 papers, and never even tried the regular basket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have read it's good for 185 I  drink plenty of coffee and sometimes ,I just can't be bothered with PO at 5/6 am some days I just want a something easier


SAGE IS NOT A UPGRADE

 

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Behmor is very good, you can get filters from HB also which fit better than 185 I think. The coffee keeps warm for quite long and it's pretty easy to use. I currently use 40g/650g water but I think it works better with larger brews (i.e. 55g/900g)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a Melitta (good, reliable, rich cup, I use it at work when I can't faff about) and a V60 (much more clarity and separation of flavours, great for 'delicate' African SO's for example, but more difficult to get right consistently).

The Kalita often seems to be cited as a mid-point between these two extremes, and people who have the Behmor seem to love that too. The world is your oyster!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melitta only has one hole & is more self-regulating, papers can be bought from many supermarkets (I use the Rombouts white papers), it's not essential to use a gooseneck kettle (but you do still need to be careful with weights). You can use a gooseneck, but you can also grind finer, bloom for 90s, then add the remainder in one quick pour (10-20s). It's potentially least faff.

V60, Chemex are better with a gooseneck.

Kalita Wave 185 can be used with/without a gooseneck, papers can be the hardest to find in white.

As to differences in the cup, there are none. This is the bit you do when you make the coffee, if you are consistent with all of them you will get good results (if the coffee is good for filter).

Edited by MWJB
  • Like 1

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mark - very useful post. I just got a Kalita 155 off eBay and have a Melitta coming. I don't have a gooseneck - have a Bosch temperature regulated kettle on the way. But I've been using the microwave for water and a glass jug looks to be quite useful. I'll find out all this when the equipment arrives. 

Could you expand on "if the coffee is good for filter" with some examples each way? 

 


Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

Thanks Mark - very useful post. I just got a Kalita 155 off eBay and have a Melitta coming. I don't have a gooseneck - have a Bosch temperature regulated kettle on the way. But I've been using the microwave for water and a glass jug looks to be quite useful. I'll find out all this when the equipment arrives. 

Could you expand on "if the coffee is good for filter" with some examples each way? 

 

155 is rather small, you'll need to pour in a couple of pulses for regular sized mug.

Brew with water at a rolling boil at bloom time. If you bloom for a long time like 90s, as I would if pouring all the brew water after bloom in one go from a regular kettle, reboil before pouring the remainder. A jug will lose heat quicker than a kettle with lid. A jug won't be a good alternative to a gooseneck.

Coffee roasted for espresso & a lot of omni roasts will be a little over-browned & muted sweetness. So look for "filter" roasts for juicy, sweeter brews. I guess any that seem roasty/flat/burned tasting can be tried for espresso, or the Aeropress?

For me, origin is a big factor: Kenyans, Rwandans, Colombians, El Salvador, generally give better results. Brazil, Costa Rica, Ethiopia not so much when taken as a whole (you can get a great coffee from any origin, but you might have to kiss a lot more frogs with respect to these).

Here's a video of my Melitta & regular kettle method (using your own grinder & lighter roasts, you might be able to bump up the dose to 14.0-14.5g):

 

  • Like 1

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/01/2020 at 09:26, les24preludes said:

Thanks Mark - very useful post. I just got a Kalita 155 off eBay and have a Melitta coming. I don't have a gooseneck - have a Bosch temperature regulated kettle on the way. But I've been using the microwave for water and a glass jug looks to be quite useful. I'll find out all this when the equipment arrives. 

Could you expand on "if the coffee is good for filter" with some examples each way? 

 

You absolutely will need a gooseneck for the 155. IME it is one of the trickier brewers to get good repeatable results from. It is tiny, so access to the bed is restrictive and coffee is easily caught in the flutes of the filter. I use an aeropress funnel to get the coffee in the brewer - it is a snug fit. Without the funnel it's easy to make a real mess. The 3 holes means it drains quickly. Very quickly.

The method I use for 13.5/225g brews is - bloom 30g ish for 30 secs (kettle just off boil). At 30s pour to around 105g gently with a mix of spiral and cross bed pouring. Give brewer a little tap. When water is approx halfway drained pour centrally, really slowly - almost a dribble just enough to maintain clear water above the bed. Pour to target. Typically this pour starts around 1:05 and continues until 2:20 ish. You can try and divert the flow to wash down the flutes while you do this but it's tricky to do.

There are obviously other strategies around but this one works for me and is repeatable and consistent. I never change grind size.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First pour-over with the Melitta this morning. My Bosch temperature controlled kettle is surprisingly accurate at pouring - I don't feel the need for a gooseneck. Results in the cup were smoother and fuller than with my Aeropress and less sour. My experience with the Aeropress is in early days yet, though. Overall a good cup of coffee and I'm liking pour-over after a year or two of my Gaggia.

I'm impressed - a £5 plastic cone and filter can produce great coffee. I have a Kalita 155 coming so I'll do a shootout when it arrives. I used 22g medium coarse coffee to 250g water at 96°. Plenty hot in the cup. I think it was a good day when my Gaggia stopped working! Haven't bothered to fix it and my backup Gaggia is staying in the cupboard for now.  

  • Like 1

Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning I did my first pour-over with the Kalita 155. It's much smaller than I thought, but perfect for a single cup. I didn't bother pre-soaking the white filter. My Bosch temperature controlled kettle turned out to be perfectly accurate at pouring - no gooseneck needed. I used a constant very slow pour, just topping up the slurry continuously. Results in the cup were better than my Aeropress, and I would say slightly better than the Melitta, though a similar taste. The coffee - medium coarse - goes through slower than the Melitta. So 20g/250g went through in 3m as opposed to less than 2m30 for the Melitta. I'm pretty happy with the Kalita 155. This may become my most-used method.

 

Edited by les24preludes

Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

 The coffee - medium coarse - goes through slower than the Melitta. So 20g/250g went through in 3m as opposed to less than 2m30 for the Melitta. I'm pretty happy with the Kalita 155. This may become my most-used method.

 

Sounds like you could pour a bit slower for the Melitta to even things up?

30s difference between different coffees wouldn't be unusual, but 30s difference between 2 brews of the same coffee, grind & weights is a lot & suggests something different is happening with the pour.

There's no need to suffer worse results from one, or other of the brewers.

 


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

This morning I did my first pour-over with the Kalita 155. It's much smaller than I thought, but perfect for a single cup. I didn't bother pre-soaking the white filter. My Bosch temperature controlled kettle turned out to be perfectly accurate at pouring - no gooseneck needed. I used a constant very slow pour, just topping up the slurry continuously. Results in the cup were better than my Aeropress, and I would say slightly better than the Melitta, though a similar taste. The coffee - medium coarse - goes through slower than the Melitta. So 20g/250g went through in 3m as opposed to less than 2m30 for the Melitta. I'm pretty happy with the Kalita 155. This may become my most-used method.

 

Great to hear of your positive experiences with pour over. A good pour over trump's the aeropress IMHO any day of the week.

A quality roast, a decent hand grinder and a £5 plastic cone can trump £1000's  of espresso machinery. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

This morning I did my first pour-over with the Kalita 155. It's much smaller than I thought, but perfect for a single cup. I didn't bother pre-soaking the white filter. My Bosch temperature controlled kettle turned out to be perfectly accurate at pouring - no gooseneck needed. I used a constant very slow pour, just topping up the slurry continuously. Results in the cup were better than my Aeropress, and I would say slightly better than the Melitta, though a similar taste. The coffee - medium coarse - goes through slower than the Melitta. So 20g/250g went through in 3m as opposed to less than 2m30 for the Melitta. I'm pretty happy with the Kalita 155. This may become my most-used method.

 

Metal, glass or ceramic kalita wave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metal Kalita Wave 155. I'm with Step21 regarding the slow continuous dribble method. Seems logical to me that the grounds should be continuously wet during the brew. I know there are different ways of pouring and I haven't tried systematically comparing them, so open to correction. The time is definitely slower with the Kalita than with the Melitta, and you can see the filter holding back the extraction, however it does that. My Melitta is also much larger and so are the filters, so it's not a comparable design. I'm with Step21 in thinking the Kalita works better than the Aeropress on a casual try-out basis. There are lots of ways of experimenting with the AP and I'm not turning my back on it, but so far the Kalita 155 is looking like a very good choice for a single cup. 


Gaggia Baby 2002 and 2005, Mazzer Major, Motta 58.4mm tamper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cool, i am tempted to have an experiment with a kalita 185 over the V60, which sometimes has some stalling, therefore the kalita looks attractive for the evenness and the higher contact time with the grinds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

 My Melitta is also much larger and so are the filters, so it's not a comparable design.

They're very comparable, you're putting too much importance in things that aren't that relevant. 

If you use the same coffee, weights & grind, you can essentially eliminate the differences that you are seeing between Melitta & Kalita Wave. They're just bits of metal/plastic that hold a paper filter , the coffee provides resistance depending on the bed shape/depth & amount of water above it...you control this aspect.

Aeropress is different, it's an immersion brewer so all the water & all the coffee can be held together as long/short as you dictate, extraction slows down quickly because no new, clean, hot brew water is being introduced to the grounds bed.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, matted said:

cool, i am tempted to have an experiment with a kalita 185 over the V60, which sometimes has some stalling, therefore the kalita looks attractive for the evenness and the higher contact time with the grinds.

If the V60 is stalling (I admit I have never seen this happen), why do you want longer brew times with the 185? A few members have noticed that the 185 is prone to longer draw downs than the 155, I think mine are in the region of about 10-20s longer than my V60 brews with Japanese white papers.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, MWJB said:

If the V60 is stalling (I admit I have never seen this happen), why do you want longer brew times with the 185? A few members have noticed that the 185 is prone to longer draw downs than the 155, I think mine are in the region of about 10-20s longer than my V60 brews with Japanese white papers.

155 drains like a tank compared to 185

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, les24preludes said:

Seems logical to me that the grounds should be continuously wet during the brew.

A red herring IMO. It works for this 155 method but my V60 method has the bed dry 3 times and works.

It's probably that the combination of grind size and contact time (flow rate) align sufficiently well to produce a good extraction with either method.

With 155 I've tried more standard pulse pouring technique but never achieved consistency. Others report that it works for them. I find that generally the brews run too quickly with pulse pouring. The dribble method gives me a very high strike rate. I must say that I'm surprised that your kettle can dribble. My standard kitchen kettle gives very little control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • About
    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 24000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:
    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard. Please read our Terms of Use.

    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Click Here To Buy Advertising Space 
    £100 p/m when paid yearly, up-to: 690000 banner impressions per month!

    Donate / Sponsor

    Click Here To Donate (big thank you!)

    Get Your Supporter Badge Today (per year)

    image.png

×
×
  • Create New...