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TomHughes

Dialling in a lighter roast

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Just after a few tips of things to try if possible.

I roast myself and have always gravitated towards a medium/dark roast. Currently I have a nicely roasted Columbian Suarez taken just into second crack.

It makes a lovely espresso at 19g in the basket 38g out over 30 seconds. Nice through milk between around 4-6oz but lacking punch beyond that.

I’ve never been a massive fan of acidity, so have shied away from lighter roasts, but I’m trying to expand my palate a little, but I’m just not getting good results dialling them in.

current roast is a 4 day old Costa Rican (often light roasted Ive seen) roasted to just after 1st crack with maybe 1.5mins development time as per Rave. So it’s light for me but not ridiculously so. 

again 19g in, around 38 out, 25-30 seconds and all I’m getting is sourness, no sweet notes I can detect! 
obviously the coffee is still a little new. I may wait a couple more days but Wanted a plan of attack. Ideally I want something which cuts through full fat milk and gives me a gentle acidity. 

 


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Sourness on light roasts is typical. They generally prefer to be longer ratios (1:3 isn't unheard of) and some people bump the temp up an celcius or two for extraction. You can also grind finer.

It's due to the readiness of the dissolvable solids as far as I'm aware when compared to darker roasts. For the same reason you tend to pull shorter shots on dark roasts.

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1 minute ago, Cooffe said:

Sourness on light roasts is typical. They generally prefer to be longer ratios (1:3 isn't unheard of) and some people bump the temp up an celcius or two for extraction. You can also grind finer.

It's due to the readiness of the dissolvable solids as far as I'm aware when compared to darker roasts. For the same reason you tend to pull shorter shots on dark roasts.

Cool thanks. Yes I was going to bump the temp up slightly as this is possible on the barista pro, might also try running it at the factory setting of 60ml double.

To he fair I just had another look at the beans and I’m sure they would be classed as more medium by others but light to me! I used to roast beyond second crack (using monsooned malabar)! 


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Acidity in milk? I'd always hope the sugars in the milk would stop the acidity from tasting "acidic" and turn it into some kind of identifiable flavour...if you can get acidity remaining in milk (that doesn't become a fruit note for example) won't it just give the milk an off flavour? E.G You might want an espresso that goes into a latte and winds up tasting like strawberries but you probably won't want the milk to simply taste acidic...? At least I wouldn't.

I would getting the flavour notes to come out in espresso alone before hoping milk will do the job. So to get past sourness pull a longer shot of about 45g. You might be able to tighten the grind and pull 40-45g in 40 seconds or more to get past the sourness. I'd pay attention to flow rate: if it rapidly speeds up after about 10g in the cup then I'd tighten the grind before pulling another shot, if the flow increases gradually I'd extract to a higher yield before altering grind. 

 

 

 


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13 hours ago, Rob1 said:

Acidity in milk? I'd always hope the sugars in the milk would stop the acidity from tasting "acidic" and turn it into some kind of identifiable flavour...if you can get acidity remaining in milk (that doesn't become a fruit note for example) won't it just give the milk an off flavour? E.G You might want an espresso that goes into a latte and winds up tasting like strawberries but you probably won't want the milk to simply taste acidic...? At least I wouldn't.

I would getting the flavour notes to come out in espresso alone before hoping milk will do the job. So to get past sourness pull a longer shot of about 45g. You might be able to tighten the grind and pull 40-45g in 40 seconds or more to get past the sourness. I'd pay attention to flow rate: if it rapidly speeds up after about 10g in the cup then I'd tighten the grind before pulling another shot, if the flow increases gradually I'd extract to a higher yield before altering grind. 

 

 

 

That’s more what I was meaning. An espresso with a bit more character that holds flavour through milk. I find some of the darker roasts I’ve been doing taste nice and chocolaty but I’m maybe after a touch more citrus etc. 


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Seem to remember you use a DTP. There is an IMS competition basket around that seemed to be popular with milk drinkers. It's intended for a La Spaziale

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/GB/IMS-Spaziale-Competition-Filter-Basket-21g---B652TM32M/m-2024.aspx?PartnerID=22&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh7qmruL95gIVh6ztCh3EagT1EAQYASABEgINxvD_BwE

My experience with La Spaz baskets suggests that they hold a fair bit more on Sage. @joey24dirt should be able to give you details about it. Might help with milk based or blow your brains out. The rim size is too big for Sage. Some suggest modifying with pliers by neatly bending the rim in. I reduced the diameter of another basket with a file. I posted some info on how some one might do that very recently. This was for a La Spaz coffee pod basket that is sold on ebay and holds around 14g.

The IMS basket may need a bottomless portafilter, not sure but they state the depth and you could compare with the Sage double. ;) Again @joey24dirt should know. I suspect that some one was modifying them for people as well but don't know who.

I don't drink milk based very often, just try them at odd times. Compared with an americano it has always made a very significant difference to taste. I find that if some one wants to taste coffee americano is the most flexible way to go.

John

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5 hours ago, ajohn said:

Seem to remember you use a DTP. There is an IMS competition basket around that seemed to be popular with milk drinkers. It's intended for a La Spaziale

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/GB/IMS-Spaziale-Competition-Filter-Basket-21g---B652TM32M/m-2024.aspx?PartnerID=22&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh7qmruL95gIVh6ztCh3EagT1EAQYASABEgINxvD_BwE

My experience with La Spaz baskets suggests that they hold a fair bit more on Sage. @joey24dirt should be able to give you details about it. Might help with milk based or blow your brains out. The rim size is too big for Sage. Some suggest modifying with pliers by neatly bending the rim in. I reduced the diameter of another basket with a file. I posted some info on how some one might do that very recently. This was for a La Spaz coffee pod basket that is sold on ebay and holds around 14g.

The IMS basket may need a bottomless portafilter, not sure but they state the depth and you could compare with the Sage double. ;) Again @joey24dirt should know. I suspect that some one was modifying them for people as well but don't know who.

I don't drink milk based very often, just try them at odd times. Compared with an americano it has always made a very significant difference to taste. I find that if some one wants to taste coffee americano is the most flexible way to go.

John

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Bit unrelated but having just bought the La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi that was on sale the link you posted is like manor from heaven lol really fancy a bottomless portafilter and the espresso shop lists them.... Thank you?


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21 hours ago, TomHughes said:

Just after a few tips of things to try if possible.

Ideally I want something which cuts through full fat milk and gives me a gentle acidity. 

 

Kenyan coffees just lurve milk, and to a lesser extent, so do Ethiopians.

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16 minutes ago, Border_all said:

Bit unrelated but having just bought the La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi that was on sale the link you posted is like manor from heaven lol really fancy a bottomless portafilter and the espresso shop lists them.... Thank you?

No I'm very likely to stick with a Sage DB for ever but have a couple of other used HX machines to try.

You have a problem in regard to bottomless portafilters on Sage's small basket sized machines. I don't think any other make fits them. It can be true on other machines as well - best fit may be the manufacturers portafilter. Sage offer one for the DB but unless they have introduced one since I looked, long time ago, not for the other machines. People have been drilling the base of the standard ones out probably with a hole saw. It's stainless so not the easiest of things to do. Best ask on the DTP thread. Not sure if you need one for that larger basket anyway but it would be best to check.

John

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27 minutes ago, Batian said:

Kenyan coffees just lurve milk, and to a lesser extent, so do Ethiopians.

Yeh my mates coffee was a kenyan pea berry it was delicious! 


La Pavoni Europiccola - Mignon Manuale - La Pavoni Zip - Gaggia Classic - Nanopresso - Osmio Zero

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