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Orphan Pharos Faulty? Or just dumb user error


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51 minutes ago, MWJB said:

 

You seem to have a bad feeling/mistrust of the seller. I think your emotional reaction to this purchase is on the negative side & that you're maybe never going to be happy with it. Which is the way things go sometimes, for all of us. But I can't say that you've exhausted giving it a fair crack yet.

 

On the contrary I like the seller, he's been very helpful and has been great with communication in regards to his personal dials for espresso.

 

51 minutes ago, MWJB said:

£250 for a use Pharos would be too much.

Shot times vary. If they didn't, that would be suspicious.

We don't, as yet, have any evidence of a fault. It may well be that there is one, but what is the indicator that this is so?

 

Im just a bit frustrated as a brand new one not including import tax would be £270, unless these issues are standard for all pharos' which Rob1 says they aren't. Rob1 says (even though I'm not under the illusion anymore or getting a grinder that can do both chemex and espresso) that the grinder should be able to do a v60 grind but when I pulled one with pictures the amount of fines and bolders in anything past a 1 from zero is in my opinion just not good. This is coming from someone who's switching from my virtuoso, so while not cheap this grinder should be blowing that one out of the water - at least that's what I thought. 

I'd take pictures of the v60 grind but I've just been through nearly half a bag of darkwoods coffee and I don't want to waste any more. But there are more fines in this than on the virtuoso. Edit: here's a pic of one of the coarser grinds - there's just not way that can be normal for coarse with the amount of variations in grinds 20191204_193243.thumb.jpg.d4e8900cedc906cddc18a0ce7e2bd490.jpg

 

Please coffect me if I've overblown my expectations but for the grind this thing is putting out right now id rather just go back to the virtuoso and save for a niche.

 

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£250 for a use Pharos would be too much. Shot times vary. If they didn't, that would be suspicious. We don't, as yet, have any evidence of a fault. It may well be that there is one, but what

Sorry, I don't understand a finer grind equalling less wasted coffee? You can make V60s at a wide range of grinds, at the same ratio. At work, where I make 3 mugs at once, I use the April method

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have to be up early today so I'll probably start tinkering with it later today or tomorrow, most likely disassembling it and cleaning it our ?. It wasn't cleaned out

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26 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

Did you grind at around the same speed or were you focused on counting the turns rather than just grinding at a consistent rate? I assume you're using the same coffee from the same bag? What espresso machine are you using it with?

 

Didn't realise the consistency of speed was a factor (duh I guess). Speed is as consistent I can be but grip is an issue aswell. Espresso machine is a sage dual boiler.

29 minutes ago, Rob1 said:

What coffee are you using, how fresh is it, what machine are you using, are the baskets pressurised or unpressurised? 1/2 from zero I think is the starting point for espresso recommended by OE.

 

Darkwoods barrel aged coffee - bought it this week. From the videos I've seen they recommend 3/4 from zero which was fine for the first shot I did with the machine, but now it seems to clog every now and again. 

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58 minutes ago, Rob666 said:

I very much doubt the burrs are worn or "going". It's more likely to be an issue that for some reason the moving burr is going out of alignment when on coarser settings. I'm not sure how this could happen but it seems possible to me. Is it tight to the shaft or can it wobble?

Tiny wobble, like a tenth of a mm 

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Does the sage come with pressurised and unpressurised baskets? Just make sure you're using the proper basket.

Did you follow the videos on alignment and reassembly properly? There shouldn't be any jiggling movement from the handle aside from being able to lift it. 

And just to eliminate one other possibility: when you adjust the grinder you keep the handle and grinder completely stationary and only move the adjustment nut?

In terms of best grip to use I found thumb around one bolt cover, little finger around the other, push down with the palm hard to keep it steady. Sometimes I'd just have the pinky wrapped around the cover and the thumb would come in closer to the outer burr. YMMV.

 

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Using the proper basket (just double checked - i am, thank f***)

 

Followed the videos, there seemed to be contradictions in some of the videos as some of the first ones ask the user to keep the 3 outer screws loose and focus on the inner 4 to maintain alignment while one video says screw the outer 3 tightly and that should maintain a good alignment just by themselves ?, the most recent one says is the one I’m following which is to make sure everything is secure in terms of the 3 outer screws and loosen the inner 4 screws and feel out for any rubbing.

 

I’ve gotten better at the grip but I’ve just added a pic of some of the coarser grinds to a reply to another user. If you could look at that that is where most of my concern/just confusion is stemming from.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

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2 hours ago, veganwithabeef said:

On the contrary I like the seller, he's been very helpful and has been great with communication in regards to his personal dials for espresso.

 

Im just a bit frustrated as a brand new one not including import tax would be £270, unless these issues are standard for all pharos' which Rob1 says they aren't. Rob1 says (even though I'm not under the illusion anymore or getting a grinder that can do both chemex and espresso) that the grinder should be able to do a v60 grind but when I pulled one with pictures the amount of fines and bolders in anything past a 1 from zero is in my opinion just not good. This is coming from someone who's switching from my virtuoso, so while not cheap this grinder should be blowing that one out of the water - at least that's what I thought. 

I'd take pictures of the v60 grind but I've just been through nearly half a bag of darkwoods coffee and I don't want to waste any more. But there are more fines in this than on the virtuoso. Edit: here's a pic of one of the coarser grinds - there's just not way that can be normal for coarse with the amount of variations in grinds imageproxy.php?img=&key=519b442b6d5b911720191204_193243.thumb.jpg.d4e8900cedc906cddc18a0ce7e2bd490.jpg

 

Please coffect me if I've overblown my expectations but for the grind this thing is putting out right now id rather just go back to the virtuoso and save for a niche.

 

I'm not sure what you'e referring to here to be honest. I haven't mentioned v60 I don't think but yes I'd say it should be fine for any brew method, though not ideal for brewed due to the number of fines. The Virtuoso uses a different burr set and might well produce fewer fines at a coarse setting than a Pharos. With regards to your issues I'm not sure what I've said isn't common with all Pharos grinders? I would say at the same grind setting day to day you shouldn't be getting wildly different shot times i.e. a choker (nothing comes out) and a shot in 30 seconds. That is assuming you keep your dose the same every time and you aren't trying to adjust the grinder while letting the crank turn (assume not since you ignored the question).

I can't tell much by the picture but the grinds do look inconsistent this could be caused by them getting stuck though as you've mentioned so maybe this isn't something that'll effect an espresso grind but if your axle is jiggling laterally that should not be happening. 

 

1 hour ago, veganwithabeef said:

Followed the videos, there seemed to be contradictions in some of the videos as some of the first ones ask the user to keep the 3 outer screws loose and focus on the inner 4 to maintain alignment while one video says screw the outer 3 tightly and that should maintain a good alignment just by themselves ?, the most recent one says is the one I’m following which is to make sure everything is secure in terms of the 3 outer screws and loosen the inner 4 screws and feel out for any rubbing.

 

Yes they changed their procedures and users have their own tweaks. Follow their procedures for the new Pharos 2.0 for assembling everything. I think with that one they say to tighten the inner bolts in an x pattern while feeling for rubbing and very gently tapping with a hammer until you've got it adjusted as fine as possible and you don't get any rub when you take it a fraction out from zero. I think then they say to take the burrs to zero and torque down the inner bolts but could be wrong about that. By that point they'll be pretty tight anyway.   

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I wouldn't want to be switching from espresso & V60 back & forth with any grinder. V60 doesn't need any kind of amazing grinder to make good cups, whatever espresso grinder you end up with it would be best to keep that dialled in for espresso & use something else for V60.

That photo does not look like any grind I would use for any coffee method, it looks way too coarse. You're not listening to what I am saying about coarse grinds & perceived evenness. All grinders make dust at all settings. If your average grind is 400um, you will have dust plus some pieces around 1.5mm, if your average grind size is 800um (broadly drip range & finer than your photo) then you'll have dust & some pieces around 2.5mm, maybe larger. The difference between smallest & largest is greater with coarse grinds, but to know whether the grind is normal or not, you need to do more than look at it.

You say you made a V60 with the Pharos - what were the parameters (I know I keep asking for parameters, but photos of & opinions on grind don't tell us anything, actual use does).

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3 hours ago, MWJB said:

I wouldn't want to be switching from espresso & V60 back & forth with any grinder. V60 doesn't need any kind of amazing grinder to make good cups, whatever espresso grinder you end up with it would be best to keep that dialled in for espresso & use something else for V60.

You say you made a V60 with the Pharos - what were the parameters (I know I keep asking for parameters, but photos of & opinions on grind don't tell us anything, actual use does).

250ml to 15g in 2:30, it tastes good but nothing amazing, but it is very muddy as well as having large grinds. I was under the illusion that I would be able to get a grinder that could do both or at least switch between espresso and a medium grind which after doing more research it's clear that isn't a good idea. But under the description of the listing it said I would be easy to "dial from Turkish to a caffetierre blend with ease" and this before I did some more research. Even taking this into account this "dust" that you are saying will occur regardless is more than I'm getting out of my old Sette and this was suppose to be a stepup (not much but a step up). And dialing with this thing for espresso has been a nightmare as the Allen key tightening screw is pretty stripped out and something's causes slippage when adjusting the grind for espresso, making it hard to maintain where my last grind was.

11 hours ago, Rob1 said:

I'm not sure what you'e referring to here to be honest. I haven't mentioned v60 I don't think but yes I'd say it should be fine for any brew method, though not ideal for brewed due to the number of fines.

Im not sure if it was you or the other Rob that had one of these that said you were able to grind coarser when I mentioned that I was maxing out the coarseness setting but was only able to achieve a medium grind maybe enough for a v60. This was when I was trying to grind for chemex which I now know I shouldn't with this grinder.

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17 minutes ago, veganwithabeef said:

250ml to 15g in 2:30, it tastes good but nothing amazing, but it is very muddy as well as having large grinds. I was under the illusion that I would be able to get a grinder that could do both or at least switch between espresso and a medium grind which after doing more research it's clear that isn't a good idea. But under the description of the listing it said I would be easy to "dial from Turkish to a caffetierre blend with ease" and this before I did some more research. Even taking this into account this "dust" that you are saying will occur regardless is more than I'm getting out of my old Sette and this was suppose to be a stepup (not much but a step up). And dialing with this thing for espresso has been a nightmare as the Allen key tightening screw is pretty stripped out and something's causes slippage when adjusting the grind for espresso, making it hard to maintain where my last grind was.

Im not sure if it was you or the other Rob that had one of these that said you were able to grind coarser when I mentioned that I was maxing out the coarseness setting but was only able to achieve a medium grind maybe enough for a v60. This was when I was trying to grind for chemex which I now know I shouldn't with this grinder.

OK, your V60 method is just a ratio & end time. No one can tell anything from that. If you make a V60 at 60g/L then you'll use 250g of water, same as everyone else. It'll end from 2:30 to 4:00 and could be great, OK, or foul at any point in between. If you had a bloom phase then your brew was on the fast side.

 You have identified a fault with the adjustment locking mechanism. Get some money knocked off (to cover parts for a fix), or suggest a return. This slipping of setting is not something you have mentioned before. You have mostly mentioned choking espresso shots, if the grind was slipping it would normally slip coarser.

I don't see how a Sette would be any better for making Chemex/V60. My Sette at coarsest setting is finer than I'd like to use for drip.

The grind pictures you have shown are not "medium"

I'm not saying the dust will occur, it does occur, it's an inescapable fact. How much does the Sette make when that and the Pharos are making 95% of their grind under the same size?

Dialling this grinder in & switching from brew method to brew method looks like more hassle than you want to take on, so return the grinder & get your money back (which would be easier if you hadn't disassembled the thing already).

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13 minutes ago, MWJB said:

OK, your V60 method is just a ratio & end time. No one can tell anything from that. If you make a V60 at 60g/L then you'll use 250g of water, same as everyone else. It'll end from 2:30 to 4:00 and could be great, OK, or foul at any point in between. If you had a bloom phase then your brew was on the fast side.

 

What parameters are you looking for? The only thing I think I left out it brew temperature and taste?

13 minutes ago, MWJB said:

I don't see how a Sette would be any better for making Chemex/V60. My Sette at coarsest setting is finer than I'd like to use for drip.

The Sette is for espresso, I use the virtuoso for anything pourover

What I am saying is this thing clogs more than my Sette and I guess now isn't designed to do drip so ?

13 minutes ago, MWJB said:

You have identified a fault with the adjustment locking mechanism. Get some money knocked off (to cover parts for a fix), or suggest a return. This slipping of setting is not something you have mentioned before. You have mostly mentioned choking espresso shots, if the grind was slipping it would normally slip coarser.

I assumed this was common knowledge, this is less to do with the damaged adjustment pin and more to do with the design, even on the OE videos the owner has keep the adjustment nut very steady while he tightens it and even when he does slip his adjustments seem to be more forgiving with his grinder hence my pessimism with this grinders espresso capability. 

13 minutes ago, MWJB said:

Dialling this grinder in & switching from brew method to brew method looks like more hassle than you want to take on, so return the grinder & get your money back (which would be easier if you hadn't disassembled the thing already).

I'll be keeping it on espresso from now on but the seller is the one that suggested the cleaning and it has a 30 day eBay return so should be fine

Edited by veganwithabeef
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1 minute ago, veganwithabeef said:

I assumed this was common knowledge, this is less to do with the damaged adjustment pin and more to do with the design, even on the OE videos the owner has keep the adjustment nut very steady while he tightens it and even when he does slip his adjustments seem to be more forgiving with his grinder hence my pessimism with this grinders espresso capability. 

I'll be keeping it on espresso from now on but the seller is the one that suggested the cleaning and it has a 30 day eBay return so should be fine

The grind setting shouldn't slip. What you're describing is difficulty to adjust not slipping.When it is adjusted and the nut is tightened up it shouldn't slip when in use. You need to keep the crank from turning and you need to stop the body of the grinder from moving while you move the adjustment nut. I have the old adjustment rod with mine and I stick that in it's drilled holes and push the handle up against it then turn the nut to the right position and tighten up, you could probably do the same thing with a chopstick. I think without this method you're supposed to lie the grinder down when adjusting it. I also stuck a little pointer on mine using a tiny neodymium magnet so that if I did mess up and move the handle I'd be able to move it back into position and get the pointer in the same place again. The position of the adjustment nut is only meaningful when the handle is always in the exact same position when adjusting.

There's no issue with the espresso capability of the Pharos, it's what it's good at and what it's designed for. If you bought it from the seller I think you did the listing does state returns are not accepted which is standard for ebay. You can return it if it is not as described but that doesn't seem to apply here and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it though the seller may well choose to accept a return anyway.

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6 minutes ago, veganwithabeef said:

What parameters are you looking for? The only thing I think I left out it brew temperature and taste?

What I am saying is this thing clogs more than my Sette and I guess now isn't designed to do drip so ?

I assumed this was common knowledge, this is less to do with the damaged adjustment pin and more to do with the design, even on the OE videos the owner has keep the adjustment nut very steady while he tightens it and even when he does slip his adjustments seem to be more forgiving with his grinder hence my pessimism with this grinders espresso capability. 

I'll be keeping it on espresso from now on but the seller is the one that suggested the cleaning and it has a 30 day eBay return so should be fine

V60 How much/long did you bloom. How much brew water did you add at what time/when did you get the last water in by?

Is the grind setting slipping (the burrs moving farther apart during grinding), or is the setting difficult to set, because the adjustment nut slips whilst tightening?

Good news on the returns situation.

If the Pharos wasn't capable someone would have noticed by now, if you don't think it is capable, why keep it?

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1 minute ago, Rob1 said:

The grind setting shouldn't slip. What you're describing is difficulty to adjust not slipping.When it is adjusted and the nut is tightened up it shouldn't slip when in use. You need to keep the crank from turning and you need to stop the body of the grinder from moving while you move the adjustment nut. I have the old adjustment rod with mine and I stick that in it's drilled holes and push the handle up against it then turn the nut to the right position and tighten up, you could probably do the same thing with a chopstick. I think without this method you're supposed to lie the grinder down when adjusting it. I also stuck a little pointer on mine using a tiny neodymium magnet so that if I did mess up and move the handle I'd be able to move it back into position and get the pointer in the same place again. The position of the adjustment nut is only meaningful when the handle is always in the exact same position when adjusting.

 

Yep misspoke, by slippage I meant you can't always leave the Allen key in when adjusting if the adjustment I want is under the handle, so when I'm putting the Allen key back in it slips and I lose my setting.

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3 minutes ago, MWJB said:

V60 How much/long did you bloom. How much brew water did you add at what time/when did you get the last water in by?

Is the grind setting slipping (the burrs moving farther apart during grinding), or is the setting difficult to set, because the adjustment nut slips whilst tightening?

Good news on the returns situation.

If the Pharos wasn't capable someone would have noticed by now, if you don't think it is capable, why keep it?

40 second bloom with a 60% pour followed by a second pour, that takes to to around 2:30-245 which is the usual for me but it did taste overextracted but I can't go coarser so I would probably have to mess with the brew time etc.

 

Yup the sellers agreed to a return which is very nice, I think the Pharos is capable but it doesn't seem to be the jump up from my old espresso grinder as I thought it would be so lesson learned I guess ?

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4 minutes ago, veganwithabeef said:

40 second bloom with a 60% pour followed by a second pour, that takes to to around 2:30-245 which is the usual for me but it did taste overextracted but I can't go coarser so I would probably have to mess with the brew time etc.

 

Yup the sellers agreed to a return which is very nice, I think the Pharos is capable but it doesn't seem to be the jump up from my old espresso grinder as I thought it would be so lesson learned I guess ?

I can't make particularly good tasting V60's like that. Unlikely it was over-extracted, I don't doubt it might have been bitter/powdery, but if you wanted to get less extraction, you would add the water faster (but like I said, I don't think you need to do this, certainly not at the coarsest grind you have.)

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Sorry, I don't understand a finer grind equalling less wasted coffee? You can make V60s at a wide range of grinds, at the same ratio.

At work, where I make 3 mugs at once, I use the April method with V60 02: 14g dose , 110g water in within 15sec, at 1:00 add up to 220g again within 15sec. All pours are fast spirals. Grind is finer end of V60, but not anywhere near espresso fine. 2+2 on a Feld v1, 49 on a Niche. Dry bed at 2:30 -3:30. Usually a bright, clean cup.

At home if I was going to brew with 15g I'd be a touch coarser (~13% passing through a Kruve 400, around 2 1/2 turns on the Feld, calibration mark on Niche ), use a V60 01 and pour 33g every 20s, stir the first 33g, pour up to 166g in spirals, each pour lasting about 10sec, then the last 2 pours up to 233g straight down the middle pretty much taking 20s each. Dry bed averaging around 2:50 (+/-15sec depending on the coffee). Water should drop straight down from kettle spout & not make an arc on the way into the brewer. If using a V60 02, pour all straight down the middle after the first pour & stir.

I don't brew with 250g/mug because once you have bloomed with 30g or so, you're left with an odd amount to divide up for the rest of the pours. With 233g you can bloom with 33 and divide 200g by 6/5/3/2. Or, bloom with 23g and divide 210g by 7/6/3/2.

For a very coarse grind I'd use V60 01, 14g coffee and pour 220g total, 20g/20sec in spirals, each pour taking 10sec. This is probably easiest to troubleshoot as if your brew time ends before 3:40 it's likely to are a little too coarse, and if it's much over 4:00 then you're likely a little too fine.

Basically, the finer the grind, the fewer pours, coarser the grind & more pours. I wouldn't mix methods at the same grind. I very rarely change the grind setting for a given method.

I've never had success with a fast, single pour for 1 mug V60.

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