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Jam1e1

My First Roast - Gene Cafe / Ana sora beans - results and help

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hi

So this is my first roast, having acquired the Gene from a fellow CFUK member! Ive done a little bit of research on here, youtube and google to get a starter. 

Machine: Gene Cafe CBR101 Unmodified

Beans: Ana Sora Ethiopian from Hasbean. (2kg - see pic) Weighed out 220g for roasting

Profile i was aiming for:

Target temperature 2: 240°C until the first crack
Target temperature 3: 220°C until the end

Batch 1: Started by warming up the Gene to about 150c, ambient temperature in garage 8c

Profile / notes:

  • 5m  200c
  • 6m  210c
  • 7m 215c
  • 8m 220c
  • 9m 223c green / light browning
  • 10m 228c light brown
  • 11m 230 
  • 12m 235c medium light brown
  • 13m 238c
  • 14m 240c medium brown, then cracking (think second and i missed the first crack)
  • 15m 237c - beans quickly went from dark brown to blacking with more smoke

I then cooled machine down using cool cycle and cleaned out chaff.

Results: overall i went over the planned duration and i think missed the first crack and when second came, i was a bit too late to turn down temperature, so stopped machine and poured beans into metal sieve to cool. The results are in photo with 2 pans, its the darker batch on the left. 

Determined to improve, went on to roast a second batch of the same green beans.

Batch 2: 230g - same profile as before

Profile / notes:

  • 1m 140c
  • 2m 165c
  • 3m 180c
  • 4m 192c
  • 5m 201c Green light brown
  • 6m 207c green med brown
  • 7m 213c 
  • 8m 216c green med dark 
  • 9m 220c very light brown
  • 10m 225c light brown
  • 11m 232c light medium brown
  • 12m 232c med brown
  • 13m 240c med brown first crack i think - left for 60s
  • 14m 215c after set to 220c 
  • 15m pressed stop and removed from roaster into sieve for cooling

Results: These came out much better and results are in the pan picture on right. I noticed its hard to spot first crack being new to roasting. Also surprised how quick beans go from dark brown to black, hence a lot more careful on 2nd roast. Ive left both batched to cool and rest for 24 hours in unsealed glass container. 

Taste: Whilst i want to leave for 24h first as seen others do to degas, wanted to try regardless to see how flavours evolved. Ground 15g in vario at setting 6 which is usual aeropress setting. Brewed for 1m30s then pressed through fine metal filter.Noted there was loads of crema as per aeropress picture. Taste was a strong blueberry/plum taste and quite sweet with little bitterness, almost a bit 'sugary'. Either way in my opinion tasted really good, though lacked a bit of 'depth' that usually get - my guess was due to not leaving 24 hours. 

Couple of questions / help:

- Roasting - How do people listen out for first crack / when would you usually expect to hear?

- Roasting - How do you best determine the 'sweet' spot to turn down temperature, and how long leave after - overall im aiming for a light-medium roast colour like that on right

- Batch 1 - are these over roasted/ bin ready or are they ok for espresso?

- Batch 2 - any comments to improve approach / roast

Post roast:

- How are green beans best stored?

- How do you leave beans to degas, in open container?

- Assume airtight glass containers ok to store beans in after?

thanks

Jamie

aeropress.jpg

beans.jpg

roaster.jpg

roast.jpg

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Hello! Good effort! It’s hard to judge by looks only, but the ones on the left seem way overly roasted!

Did you take a look at the Today’s roast thread? I’d encourage to read, stop, pause, wait and read it again. There’s invaluable information there.

As you know, hearing first crack on the gene is hard. Do y I have the Bella Barista manual with the profiles provided by DavecUK?


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2 hours ago, Jam1e1 said:

Profile i was aiming for:

Target temperature 2: 240°C until the first crack
Target temperature 3: 220°C until the end

Batch 1: Started by warming up the Gene to about 150c, ambient temperature in garage 8c

Profile / notes:

  • 5m  200c
  • 6m  210c
  • 7m 215c
  • 8m 220c
  • 9m 223c green / light browning
  • 10m 228c light brown
  • 11m 230 
  • 12m 235c medium light brown
  • 13m 238c
  • 14m 240c medium brown, then cracking (think second and i missed the first crack)
  • 15m 237c - beans quickly went from dark brown to blacking with more smoke

I then cooled machine down using cool cycle and cleaned out chaff.

Results: overall i went over the planned duration and i think missed the first crack and when second came, i was a bit too late to turn down temperature, so stopped machine and poured beans into metal sieve to cool. The results are in photo with 2 pans, its the darker batch on the left. 

Determined to improve, went on to roast a second batch of the same green beans.

Batch 2: 230g - same profile as before

Profile / notes:

  • 1m 140c
  • 2m 165c
  • 3m 180c
  • 4m 192c
  • 5m 201c Green light brown
  • 6m 207c green med brown
  • 7m 213c 
  • 8m 216c green med dark 
  • 9m 220c very light brown
  • 10m 225c light brown
  • 11m 232c light medium brown
  • 12m 232c med brown
  • 13m 240c med brown first crack i think - left for 60s
  • 14m 215c after set to 220c 
  • 15m pressed stop and removed from roaster into sieve for cooling

Results: These came out much better and results are in the pan picture on right. I noticed its hard to spot first crack being new to roasting. Also surprised how quick beans go from dark brown to black, hence a lot more careful on 2nd roast. Ive left both batched to cool and rest for 24 hours in unsealed glass container. 

Taste was a strong blueberry/plum taste and quite sweet with little bitterness, almost a bit 'sugary'. Either way in my opinion tasted really good, though lacked a bit of 'depth' that usually get - my guess was due to not leaving 24 hours. 

beans.jpg

roast.jpg

Check your voltage for consistency. Based on your times it looks like everything is fine especially considering you're roasting with an environmental temp of only 8c! Perhaps heating the garage would be a good idea that way you can avoid the need to pre-heat the roaster. 

Your first roast looks a bit odd as it takes 9 minutes for the beans to reach about 165c. I believe the 'light brown' you see after green is the yellowing phase (on some beans it can look brown or red) which you'll see at bean temps of around 160-165c, with a more uniform (no more green) colour at around 175c....so I'm a bit confused by your first roast starting at 5 minutes, is that because you spent 4 minutes pre-heating to 150c before putting the beans in the roaster? If so your yellowing phase on 9 minutes would actually make sense as it's really 4-5 minute in. Before hitting this phase you should have noticed the beans expanding and going a bit pale while shedding some skin.

You probably hit first crack at about 12:30-13:00 on both roasts.

I'm surprised the roast didn't take off when you left it for a minute at 240c, and I'd expect dropping it by 20c to stall the roast completely as you are essentially starting the cooling cycle. 

It's impossible to tell you anything from the pictures  you've posted: based on your description of crackling, more smoke, and very quickly turning dark it sounds like the beans went well into second crack. That doesn't mean they are over roasted. Based on your description of the flavours for the lighter roast it sounds like you've got sugar to burn so a dark roast might well be good. Coffee compass offer an extra extra dark ethiopian wild (freshly roasted the beans are covered in so much oil that they stick together!) that has fruit, chocolate and caramel notes so I wouldn't be surprised to find out your dark roast here is just fine. Give your dark roast a test, you might find out they are fine for any brew methods and might even prefer them to the lighter roast.

 

As far as advice/help for your roasts it's difficult to say. You don't actually identify anything wrong with your second batch aside from 'little bitterness' and a lack of depth. The little bitterness could be from some slight burning, in which case limited temp to 235c or less might be ideal especially if you're going for a light roast, though this is very difficult to recommend because I don't know how long your FC lasted for, if it really did occur when you say it did, if it ended or slowly progressed when you lowered the heat...so more information is needed. The reality is you need to learn what to watch out for yourself and notice sometimes very subtle things happening through the roast in order to make changes to a profile. The lack of depth could be a stalled roast or it could be a short development time or it could just be the fact you are using a combination air/drum roaster...

Quote

Couple of questions / help:

- Roasting - How do people listen out for first crack / when would you usually expect to hear?

- Roasting - How do you best determine the 'sweet' spot to turn down temperature, and how long leave after - overall im aiming for a light-medium roast colour like that on right

- Batch 1 - are these over roasted/ bin ready or are they ok for espresso?

- Batch 2 - any comments to improve approach / roast

Post roast:

- How are green beans best stored?

- How do you leave beans to degas, in open container?

- Assume airtight glass containers ok to store beans in after?

1 - I typically use my ears to listen for first crack.  It depends on the bean. I tend to notice an increase in moisture coming out of the roaster and then the obvious increase in smoke. The smell also tends to intensify as first crack starts. You will probably notice these visual signs accompanied by a few early pops before first crack is well underway.

2 - It depends what type of roast you are going for. If you want a light roast ending at the end of first crack or even before then you need to roast at a temperature that allows first crack to progress slowly. If you want a darker roast you want first crack to progress faster, meaning you roast at a higher temp, otherwise you'll end up spending a very long time roasting to second crack. My advice would be to aim for a 2:30 development time from the start of FC to end of roast and adjust from there. I never attempted to get a roast ending on first crack end or sooner so if I wanted a lighter roast I'd aim for a FC duration of two minutes 30 seconds further development from there taking the beans to about 225c (measured with a bean mass probe not the gene display!). To prolong first crack lower the temp when first is well underway (lots of popping) if that doesn't work lower it at the first pops and if that doesn't work roast at a lower temp. If the roast stalls when you lower the temp by even 5c when first is underway then roast at a lower temp.

3 - Impossible to say. Pull a shot and find out. You could also just cup them to see if there's a lot of bitterness or burned flavours.

Post roast:

1 - I store mine in a cooler which is air tight. If I'm not going to use them quickly I vacuum seal them in 1 or 2kg batches.

2 - I don't ever leave beans to degas in an open container. They go straight into a ziplock back and I squeeze all the air out and seal them up for 4 days at least.

3 - Best thing for storage are containers that allow you to remove headspace (air) this will be airscape or something similar or a ziplock bag. A glass jar will be fine if you are going to use the roast up within a couple of weeks.

  

 

 

 

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ACS Minima (Beta) -- Reskinned Ceado E8, Niche Zero --- Gene Cafe CBR101 with Dimmer Mod and Bean Mass Probe

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Referring to Hasbeans web site, are the beans you are using  a natural process bean? 

If you have the Bella Barista notes (written by davecuk) and/or the manufacturers instruction booklet, you will find that 200gm is the recommended charge weight for naturals  and pea-berry. I am sure as you gain experience  you may be able to push this.

The BB additional instructions are a great starting point to get you understanding the machine and roasting. There is particular reference to the volume of beans in the chamber and its effects on heat.  

The instructions also state that preheating is not necessary. There is loads for and against this within the forum. You will find that you do wear out the rubber buffer on the chaff clearer quicker by running on empty!

Have fun and I hope that the second batch  tastes as good as it looks when its had a bit more time to rest.

 

Edited by Batian
typo
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Brilliant thanks all for the comments very much appreciated.

I’ve got the supplement manual written by Dave so will go back to that. I think for next time I’ll got more on look and feel rather and adjust accordingly. I’ll also try to drop down to 200g and see how these go - they are natural beans not washed , as I tried both roasted from HB and the natural had way more flavour for batch I tried in my opinion. Once got through these beans I’ll repost progress, may not be for another week or so



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Brilliant thanks all for the comments very much appreciated.

I’ve got the supplement manual written by Dave so will go back to that. I think for next time I’ll got more on look and feel rather and adjust accordingly. I’ll also try to drop down to 200g and see how these go - they are natural beans not washed , as I tried both roasted from HB and the natural had way more flavour for batch I tried in my opinion. Once got through these beans I’ll repost progress, may not be for another week or so



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It would be great if you could report your roasts here to keep in one place and for future reference.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/10944-todays-roast/

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A voltage meter is a good idea to check to check it's not to low, try roasting without preheating. Can you roast somewhere warmer, maybe the kitchen vented out the window ?

Try starting your cool down about 20 secs before the colour your aiming for, the beans can go dark very quickly at the end.


Londinium I / Monolith Conical / Macap MC4 / Cormorant CR600 Roaster

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