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New La Pavoni bottomless 51mm portafilter - lug sizing issues and not locking in?


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Hi, I bought a stainless steel bottomless 51mm portafilter holder direct from the manufacturer (non-UK based) as it was pretty flash looking and a bit cheaper.  Down side is the lug sizing seems a bit off.

Unfortunately it doesn't lock in properly and I don't want to force it into the Europiccola group head in case it damages it. The original spouted portafilter and the IMS basket I'm using fits fine and easily gets to to the 7 o'clock ish lock off point.

Any suggestions on reshaping the lugs with a dremel or diamond file, assuming it would be grinding the tapered edge down a bit?

Measurements using a manual vernier caliper are below. The company who make them were really nice, I bought some other bits and they threw in some freebies as well. Ideally I would like to sort it myself rather than send it back etc.

 

Original spouted holder:

  • Lug 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm thick
  • Basket top to lug high point 7.2 mm

New bottomless holder:

  • Lug 3.0 mm to 4.5 mm thick
  • Basket top to lug high point 7.8 mm
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8 minutes ago, Nicknak said:

Does the basket fully engage ,sit inside the PF ? Or does that sit proud .. Looking at the pictures there seem to be a difference there as well .. Which might make the fit worse .

It seemed to be OK, felt like the basket was fully engaging on the PF lip edge. I will double check though.

I measured from the basket lip edge to lug high point when it was upside down on the worktop, shame I didn't have two identical baskets to show them fitted to both PF in a single photo. Looked to be about 0.5 mm difference between the overall stack heights

@coffeechap May have a solution which avoids any filing down of the lugs.... He's seeing if there is a part used/more compressed seal in his Pavoni spares collection which might give a better fit.

Edited by Northern_Monkey
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14 minutes ago, Northern_Monkey said:

It seemed to be OK, felt like the basket was fully engaging on the PF lip edge. I will double check though.

I measured from the basket lip edge to lug high point when it was upside down on the worktop, shame I didn't have two identical baskets to show them fitted to both PF in a single photo. Looked to be about 0.5 mm difference between the overall stack heights

@coffeechap May have a solution which avoids any filing down of the lugs.... He's seeing if there is a part used/more compressed seal in his Pavoni spares collection which might give a better fit.

That is what I thought , the baskets on my 49mm Pavoni sit off the lugs . A side by side look with the baskets in might show a bigger discrepancy in the lug height off the table top as in one of your pictures  . The table top would be where the basket touches the rubber seal and the lug position in the group . 

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1 hour ago, Northern_Monkey said:

@Nicknak That was what I was going for in terms of the table top representing the rubber seal. Picture below with basket fitted, tape was a reference point for the pics, not 100% same scale but as close as I can get with my phone camera and Paint.

49073102571_7b5b72a900.jpg

Yes looks all in the lugs from those pictures .. ?  

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  • 4 weeks later...

All sorted, @coffeechap very kindly had a spare thinner group seal that worked a treat. New IMS basket and a stainless portafilter holder are a definite improvement on the originals, the lack of spring clip on the old spouted one would have driven me mad eventually...

Apologies for the circus mirror photo, it was quite tricky to take one whilst pouring a shot and not get picked up by the shiny chrome!

49188841758_599f95af8a.jpg

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All sorted, @coffeechap very kindly had a spare thinner group seal that worked a treat. New IMS basket and a stainless portafilter holder are a definite improvement on the originals, the lack of spring clip on the old spouted one would have driven me mad eventually...
Apologies for the circus mirror photo, it was quite tricky to take one whilst pouring a shot and not get picked up by the shiny chrome!
49188841758_599f95af8a.jpg
Can still see your eye! [emoji1787][emoji23][emoji1787]
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Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Hi,
This is the bottomless from coffee sensor the Romanian guy, right?
I have the same machine and am planning to buy the same PF.

Have you understood what was the root cause for your issue?
Was it a defective PF or does it normally require a custom group seal?
Thanks in advance!

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13 hours ago, blazarov said:

Hi,
This is the bottomless from coffee sensor the Romanian guy, right?
I have the same machine and am planning to buy the same PF.

Have you understood what was the root cause for your issue?
Was it a defective PF or does it normally require a custom group seal?
Thanks in advance!

Hi, it was from Coffee Sensor. It is really nicely made but the stack height with basket was just a bit too high for me with the original new gasket.

I wouldn’t say it is necessarily “defective” though as that is a bit strong, there are four variables to how accurately your machine, gasket, basket and portafilter lugs fit together. I think the combination/tolerances on mine were too tight, even the original spouted one was a very tight fit when I got it to be honest.

So maybe worth a shot if you are OK with a bit of tweaking or buying from Espresso shop for easy returns?

For balance the Edesia Espress ones have tiny lugs that might not be a perfect fit either ?

Edited by Northern_Monkey
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Hi - just caught up with this thread - my only thoughts are that the SS might over time wear the group  as its a harder material and the edges on the lugs look a more angled, probably nothing to worry about as it may take 50 years ?, but worth keeping an eye out for it  

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all opinions are my own I have not received any free equipment or favours from suppliers 

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32 minutes ago, jimbojohn55 said:

probably nothing to worry about as it may take 50 years ?, but worth keeping an eye out for it  

Currently it’s my coffee machine equivalent of having a “Sunday bike”, only getting used on the odd quiet weekend morning or afternoon really. So it might take a while!

A bit stuck as the Edesia Espress ones are absolutely tiny, so on the other end of the scale. Not sure if they would wear a smaller area faster or be a better long term option?

49236969256_b6098b7aa8_b.jpg

 

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I decided to order the original bottomless PF with wooden handle from lamachinadelcoffee italian shop.
I like the original chrome rounded look much better and i want the wooden handle anyways.
The Romanian guy says SS is better due to hardness as the original ones were prone to cracking, but i will take that risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • 3 weeks later...

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