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Love it. Thank you so much, Mexes. I'll give it a go tomorrow.


Lelit MaraX, Niche Zero with NFC, Acaia Lunar, VST 15g, VST 18g, Osmio Zero

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Posted (edited)

Although... once the circuit is primed, you should not need flushing half litre. Maybe 30ml, but defo not half litre.

i do that with the Elizabeth too, for a similar reason, every day, first thing, 20ml out. That was a tip given to me by DavecUK. 👍

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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On 30/07/2020 at 21:41, mexes said:

Hey!
I received my machine yesterday and so far, I was pretty happy. But now, I experience exactly the same issue :(
Almost impossible to brew a coffee with brewing water being that hot. 

How did you solve this issue?

A replacement machine solved the issue! 😅

I’ve just read your post about air getting trapped in the HX as a potential culprit. Personally I am not sure if it could be attributed to that in my case as the issue was experienced every time I switched the machine on. Was I just unlucky to keep getting air trapped? And if I was, surely there is a design flaw there somewhere?

Anyway, good to hear you have managed to sort yours out! 

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11 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Although... once the circuit is primed, you should not need flushing half litre. Maybe 30ml, but defo not half litre.

Exactly, that's also how I do it now. You should only flush that much water, if you experience that problem for the first time, just to be sure, that there is no air left in the HX. After that, 20 ml is enough.

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1 hour ago, cengland117 said:

I’ve just read your post about air getting trapped in the HX as a potential culprit. Personally I am not sure if it could be attributed to that in my case as the issue was experienced every time I switched the machine on. Was I just unlucky to keep getting air trapped? And if I was, surely there is a design flaw there somewhere?

Well, maybe you indeed had a defect machine. But I had the exact same problem as you (machine heating up randomly while idling, pressure staying at 1.5 bar for over 20 minutes...) whereas switching the machine on/off also didn't solve the problem. So I'm pretty sure you also just head air inside the HX. I wouldn't say it's a real design flaw, because if you flush a little bit of water when the machine is still cold, Mara works really well and predictable.

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12 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Although... once the circuit is primed, you should not need flushing half litre. Maybe 30ml, but defo not half litre.

i do that with the Elizabeth too, for a similar reason, every day, first thing, 20ml out. That was a tip given to me by DavecUK. 👍

No, not for this reason and only 20ml for the first coffee of the day. Its a pro tip, not to solve a problem. I will explain why I always do it with all machines over a coffee one day. 

As you say though, 500ml is excessive. 

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I do this as a hobby, I'm not in business and receive no payment for my work a full disclosure is, and always has been, on my review and YouTube sites. Oh, I agree with @dfk41 quite often...well sometimes.

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1 hour ago, mexes said:

Well, maybe you indeed had a defect machine. But I had the exact same problem as you (machine heating up randomly while idling, pressure staying at 1.5 bar for over 20 minutes...) whereas switching the machine on/off also didn't solve the problem. So I'm pretty sure you also just head air inside the HX. I wouldn't say it's a real design flaw, because if you flush a little bit of water when the machine is still cold, Mara works really well and predictable.

You may well be right, who knows. But unless lelit are designing them intentionally to get air trapped and unless they are designed to require a flush when cold, there is a flaw somewhere. It’s good you have a solution to get the machine working as it should but if you are continuously needing to do it, then the problem hasn’t really been solved. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, mexes said:

Exactly, that's also how I do it now. You should only flush that much water, if you experience that problem for the first time, just to be sure, that there is no air left in the HX. After that, 20 ml is enough.

Hi Mexes,

I have flushed 500ml of cool water through the group head first thing in the morning today. As expected the machine was ready to use after around 30 min and idling at 0.5-0.7 bar of steam pressure.

I made myself a latte, turned MaraX off and 3 hour later I turned it back on again. It's been running now for about 2.5 hours and it's idling at 0.7-1.4 bar. That means the 0.5L flush hasn't really changed anything and I still need to flush some water every single time I turn the machine on to get to the expected idle stability of 0.5-0.7 bar.

From what I understand other people don't face this, it seems it's currently just the of us. If you don't mind, please try *not to* flush 20-30 ml when you turn your machine on to, just let it start and see what happens with the steam pressure. I have a feeling the trick of running 0.5L cold water through the group head hasn't really changed anything for me, or in other words - I might have as well run 30 ml and would have achieved the same effect.

Edited by PD2020

Lelit MaraX, Niche Zero with NFC, Acaia Lunar, VST 15g, VST 18g, Osmio Zero

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5 hours ago, cengland117 said:

You may well be right, who knows. But unless lelit are designing them intentionally to get air trapped and unless they are designed to require a flush when cold, there is a flaw somewhere. It’s good you have a solution to get the machine working as it should but if you are continuously needing to do it, then the problem hasn’t really been solved. 

Hm yes, actually you are right if I think about it. On another forum I read, that Lelit actually "solved" that problem by letting the machine automatically turn on the pump occasionally after pulling a shot, to pump water into the HX (and excess water is pushed into the drip tray in that moment). I always thought that it would do that to cool down the HX faster after steam boosting. Maybe anyone knows the technical details about why it is doing that? As in my case, when there was still air inside the HX, it was NOT activating the pump, indicating that it was thinking that the water was too cool (and therefore overheating). Moreover, I found out, that the technical term for that problem is "thermosyphon stalling" and the air inside the HX is preventing the water from correctly circulating. The temperature sensor actually is at the bottom of the HX, that's why it thinks that the boiler needs more heating in that case.

13 minutes ago, PD2020 said:

From what I understand other people don't face this, it seems it's currently just us two. If you don't mind, please try *not to* flush 20-30 ml when you turn your machine on to, just let it start and see what happens with the steam pressure. I have a feeling the trick of running 0.5L cold water through the grouphead hasn't really changed anything for me, or in other words - I might have as well run 30 ml and would have achieved the same effect.

Okay, I will try that and let you know. Btw.: Does your machine occasionally pump water into the HX while it heats up? Mine actually does that, so maybe it tries to prevent thermosyphon stalling and cools the HX at the same time.

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Hi Mexes,

Thanks. And yes, it has always pumped the water, just a little bit a time, during the initial 30 min warmup and I think anytime really. It's what another_jim wrote in his review on Home Barista - that's how MaraX prevents thermosyphon stalls.

My newbie gut feeling is that our problem of idling too high is either not stall related, or perhaps it is but the stall is recreated every single time by something occurring only in the initial 30 min warmup.


Lelit MaraX, Niche Zero with NFC, Acaia Lunar, VST 15g, VST 18g, Osmio Zero

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Posted (edited)

it seems the hot water output is nigh on useless (with the exception of warm a cup maybe) are there any options for removal / replacement with a stubby as on the Londinium for example: 

 

78d7ad194ba846f0bb3c7fc93c2e02d1.jpg

(photo pinched from MildredM's thread)

 

It needs the dial for balance, but i'm not convinced the wand flapping around is really adding anything :)

Edited by siliconslave

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Hi All i'm new here i've just bought this several days ago as my first hx machine so far enjoy it..

Actually from what i've read earlier. I think mine have the same issue i tried to turn it on for quite long time yesterday it's working fine on brew prio when idle steam bar aroun 0.7 the suddenly after several hours out of no where it raises up to 1.5 bar.. i don't know what happen is it normal.. but now it's working just fine the steam bar and everything.. when it's happen should i flush out 20ml? Then what happen to the temp on gh is it will drop and we have to wait again for 15 min or something? Thanks guys

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Anyone put anything from the maraX into the dishwasher ?

 Thanks 


Lelit MaraX , Brasilia RR55OD

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, PD2020 said:

My newbie gut feeling is that our problem of idling too high is either not stall related, or perhaps it is but the stall is recreated every single time by something occurring only in the initial 30 min warmup.

Hey PD2020,

So today I tested if that problem would occur again without flushing water and yes, it unfortunately does. I'm pretty sure it's stall related, and I was thinking about why that happens. Maybe there is a way of air getting trapped when I backflush the machine in the evening. I need to check if purging the machine after backflushing fixes that, but I'm pretty sure I always did that. Just need to double-check next time.

9 hours ago, KyNg said:

Actually from what i've read earlier. I think mine have the same issue i tried to turn it on for quite long time yesterday it's working fine on brew prio when idle steam bar aroun 0.7 the suddenly after several hours out of no where it raises up to 1.5 bar.. i don't know what happen is it normal.. but now it's working just fine the steam bar and everything.. when it's happen should i flush out 20ml? Then what happen to the temp on gh is it will drop and we have to wait again for 15 min or something? Thanks guys

Yes, for me at least that works. I just flush the machine with 20 ml and then wait, until it starts cooling down again. Usually that works, but when this problem occurred the first time for me, it didn't work and the machine stayed at those 1.5 bar, as I probably had a lot of air inside the HX. So in that case, you should switch off the machine and wait, until it cools down and flush again.

Edited by mexes
Typo

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1 hour ago, robti said:

Anyone put anything from the maraX into the dishwasher ?

 Thanks 

Why would you need to do that? I suppose you could put the baskets and shower screen.... but just cleaning it with a scrubbing brush and water and a tiny drop of washing up liquid, rinse it and you are good to go again. 
 

remember, the dishwasher doesn’t scrub anything.


Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Posted (edited)

Was thinking about the drip tray and grill, and water tank, saves me buying dish washing fluid but will buy some for the MaraX 

Edited by robti

Lelit MaraX , Brasilia RR55OD

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21 minutes ago, robti said:

Was thinking about the drip tray and grill, and water tank, saves me buying dish washing fluid but will buy some for the MaraX 

You are crazy! 😂 Have you seen inside your dishwasher? Would I want that in my water tank? Bits of food floating about? Errrr.... No Thanks! 
 

drip tray and grill.... i mentioned this before: you need nothing more than a slightly moisten microfibre cloth and a dry Microfibre cloth To keep your machine nice and shiny. 
 

for inside the drip tray, wipe of excess coffee with a moisten kitchen towel. Then dry it up. If it’s really that bad, a tiny amount of backflush detergent will remove any of the oils. Or you can do that when you chemically backflush the group, as the detergent will end up in the drip tray anyway.


Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

You are crazy! 😂 Have you seen inside your dishwasher? Would I want that in my water tank? Bits of food floating about? Errrr.... No Thanks! 
 

drip tray and grill.... i mentioned this before: you need nothing more than a slightly moisten microfibre cloth and a dry Microfibre cloth To keep your machine nice and shiny. 
 

for inside the drip tray, wipe of excess coffee with a moisten kitchen towel. Then dry it up. If it’s really that bad, a tiny amount of backflush detergent will remove any of the oils. Or you can do that when you chemically backflush the group, as the detergent will end up in the drip tray anyway.

got a bottle of fairy and all cleaned now and put back together with new silicone group head gasket and new water filter (had them lying about since buying the machine, so why not) 🙂, btw my dishwasher is spotless gets a cleaning cycle every Sunday and i would have sterilised the tank afterwards

 

opps forgot to say and chemical backflush and cam lube, feeling good first cam lube 😀

Edited by robti
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Lelit MaraX , Brasilia RR55OD

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19 minutes ago, robti said:

got a bottle of fairy and all cleaned now and put back together with new silicone group head gasket and new water filter (had them lying about since buying the machine, so why not) 🙂, btw my dishwasher is spotless gets a cleaning cycle every Sunday and i would have sterilised the tank afterwards

 

opps forgot to say and chemical backflush and cam lube, feeling good first cam lube 😀

Let me emphasise my point about only needing water to clean the exterior:

this was my machine, after over 2 years of use. No dishwasher, nothing, only a moisten cloth followed by a dry cloth (microfibre, always!) on the exterior:

 

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Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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I use clean water and a microfibre cloth for the exterior as well


Lelit MaraX , Brasilia RR55OD

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, robti said:

I use clean water and a microfibre cloth for the exterior as well

Good! No dishwasher or chemicals! 👍

Edited by MediumRoastSteam
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Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Let me emphasise my point about only needing water to clean the exterior:
this was my machine, after over 2 years of use. No dishwasher, nothing, only a moisten cloth followed by a dry cloth (microfibre, always!) on the exterior:
 

Can I drop mine off once a month for a full valet?
  • Haha 1

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3 hours ago, mexes said:

Hey PD2020,

So today I tested if that problem would occur again without flushing water and yes, it unfortunately does. I'm pretty sure it's stall related, and I was thinking about why that happens. Maybe there is a way of air getting trapped when I backflush the machine in the evening. I need to check if purging the machine after backflushing fixes that, but I'm pretty sure I always did that. Just need to double-check next time.

Yes, for me at least that works. I just flush the machine with 20 ml and then wait, until it starts cooling down again. Usually that works, but when this problem occurred the first time for me, it didn't work and the machine stayed at those 1.5 bar, as I probably had a lot of air inside the HX. So in that case, you should switch off the machine and wait, until it cools down and flush again.

Hmm will do it next time.. so weird how does the air coming from.. thanks mexes.. please update if you found the solution. Hha

Forgive me since i'm quite new, Btw when do we have to backflush the gh with cafiza or something? And if we do, do we have to lubricate the cams everytime we backflush it? Thanks guys..

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1 hour ago, KyNg said:

Forgive me since i'm quite new, Btw when do we have to backflush the gh with cafiza or something? And if we do, do we have to lubricate the cams everytime we backflush it? Thanks guys..

You do indeed, every 4-6 weeks, depending on usage.


Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Posted (edited)

2.5 months in, time for a deep clean, which I did yesterday - first wash the shower screen and bottom of the group separately, then a good backflush with Puly, take the group apart, scrub the bits, wipe dry and lube and put it back together. The group was quite clean after the backflushing but still there was some residue, especially on the gaskets of the cam followers, plus the cam was already squeaking. The top part was very clean with minimal smudges from water on the ss mushroom. Now it's all good as new. 

Edit: this video is useful, I did use much less lubricant though 

Edited by Stanic
Added Lelit's video

The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

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