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Artisan/Roastlogger and Amazon Dalian


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Hi, I currently use the Dalian (I have it since 10/2017) with Artisan, latest version. I run Artisan on a Raspberry Pi 3+ with 7" Touchscreen - in combination with an Arduino UNO with TC4+ board

In addition to the above post as promised that i would add pictures. I cannot seem to edit and add them to the post so they are here as a further reply.  Large bit is the original dalian k type g

Phil, Sorry, I will take some pictures when I finish for the day. The picture I already posted shows the original k type gland with my insert in and the new 3mm k type passing through it and the secu

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Hi All,

Had a message from a fellow roaster showing his artisan profile with his Dalian. What he did was roast at approx 2500w and roasts with his SD fully open. All control of the roast is done via the CD. In the example he gradually reduces the CD, which produces a declining ROR. Slight FC crash, but thank might be resolved by opening CD to keep hit in. The batch was only 800g. Was told the roast tasted good via drip over. Wondering anybody tried this way since it seems a simplistic yet great way of roasting.

 

image.thumb.png.137a546996af28ca2ed4136b8cb8065f.png

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I do it the other way round...CA full open and then gradually open the smoke damper. If I need to pull more air (which I rarely do), I simply close the CA a tad. Even in Winter, I'm often down at 2200-2300W.

Edited by DavecUK
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Nothing here...

 

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2 hours ago, Dartmoor Coffee said:

Hi All,

Had a message from a fellow roaster showing his artisan profile with his Dalian. What he did was roast at approx 2500w and roasts with his SD fully open. All control of the roast is done via the CD. In the example he gradually reduces the CD, which produces a declining ROR. Slight FC crash, but thank might be resolved by opening CD to keep hit in. The batch was only 800g. Was told the roast tasted good via drip over. Wondering anybody tried this way since it seems a simplistic yet great way of roasting.

 

image.thumb.png.137a546996af28ca2ed4136b8cb8065f.png

You'd get the same results doing it the other way around. SD and CD fully open and slow closing CD is equivalent to CD fully closed and slowly opening SD. They are two sides of the same coin. Logically you're increasing airflow through the drum equally with both methods.

Probably slight crash and flick. Altering air around that point might control it but I'd try other things.

Edited by Rob1
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Thanks forgot to say and not sure if I explained it properly both his SD and CD are fully open to begin with and SD stays open all roast.

I would have thought having SD open at the beginning of the roast would hinder the initially heating off the beans since the damper would reduce temp. Would it not be better as @DavecUK said by having SD closed allows the drum to heat up more efficiently?

Does anybody use the dimmer mod to help control the roast or just to set to make sure you have a constant wattage? By reducing the watts during the roast especially do you think that helps control FC and prevent the crash? I attached one of my best roasts where I use all 3 elements (SD, CD and Watts) to control the ROR. Although I haven't added the events during FC where I am continually making small changes to the CD to help achieve a steady declining ROR. 

Peru - Chirinos, Cajamarca (030-0858-4448).jpg

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Can anyone tell me what size thermocouple compression fittings are on the front (or side depending on POV)? I was wanting to swap out the spare which was supplied with the roaster with a new 3mm k-type to take the ET reading. That way I will have two probes the same size diameter.
 
Thanks in advance
If you haven't found a solution yet, I did this.

I got a round insert, drilled it for a 3mm TC and then drilled and tapped it so the retaining screw would hold the insert and the TC in place. 814ecf88b06c5c85a33ec55631936ad9.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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@Ted_Kent Thanks for this - nice solution. I have just gotten around to trying Aquila's suggestion of winding aluminium tape around the probe to create a seal. It seems to have worked  - have only put through one roast with it though. The tape is a bit soft - so its not keeping the probe perfectly horizontal. I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can make some improvements. If not, i'll look into drilling out an insert.

Out of interest - do you know how far into the drum your probes reach? I was wondering if there might be an optimal insertion distance.

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@RCD8 with the temp reading being done at the tip of the probe, I wanted that as far away from the mounting point with the roaster as possible. Does it make any difference, I don't know but in my mind it does haha. I've left a large enough gap between the end of the probe and the drum so nothing can get wedged between.

I've then got the phidgets setup to connect it all up to my Panasonic toughpad (FZ-G1) with the USB isolator to remove the ground loop issue (picture taken before adding the env probe, also added the barometer and humidity phidgets)8714aa8104584b45f4821ac1934acc05.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Evening All,

Great looking setup there @Ted_Kent. I'm looking to replace my current ET 5mm thermocouple I use for Artisan (front panel to the right) with a 3mm version. Has anyone found the correct compression tool to fit the 3mm probe or is the aluminium tape the way to go?

Did see this in the listings https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/sensor-accessories/0158610/. Would this work and is it the correct size?

Thanks

Phil.

Edited by Dartmoor Coffee
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Evening All,
Great looking setup there @Ted_Kent. I'm looking to replace my current ET 5mm thermocouple I use for Artisan (front panel to the right) with a 3mm version. Has anyone found the correct compression tool to fit the 3mm probe or is the aluminium tape the way to go?
Did see this in the listings https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/sensor-accessories/0158610/. Would this work and is it the correct size?
Thanks
Phil.
I can't remember what the thread is on the roaster to say that would work or not.

If you look carefully at my picture you can see its just a small metal insert that takes the size from 5mm to 3mm, cost pennies to make.
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On 19/02/2021 at 02:12, Ted_Kent said:

I can't remember what the thread is on the roaster to say that would work or not.

If you look carefully at my picture you can see its just a small metal insert that takes the size from 5mm to 3mm, cost pennies to 

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I tried this but the threaded section wasn’t long enough to catch the threaded insert for tightening.  

RS Cable gland

So I’ll either wrap some aluminium tape around the gland/thermocouple to help catch & seal it or will look to replace it all with something else.

As reported in the other Dalian thread, the stock bolt is M14 x 1.5 

RS also has thermocouple compression fittings lie this -

RS Thermocouple Compression fitting

But need to reduce from M14 x 1.5 to M8 

So far, Ive only been able to find the following which reduces to M10

M14 to M10

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I tried this but the threaded section wasn’t long enough to catch the threaded insert for tightening.  
RS Cable gland
So I’ll either wrap some aluminium tape around the gland/thermocouple to help catch & seal it or will look to replace it all with something else.
As reported in the other Dalian thread, the stock bolt is M14 x 1.5 
RS also has thermocouple compression fittings lie this -
RS Thermocouple Compression fitting
But need to reduce from M14 x 1.5 to M8 
So far, Ive only been able to find the following which reduces to M10
M14 to M10
Ah right ok. I just drilled my insert and then tapped it out so it also had a thread and then used a longer hex head bolt to secure through. The insert doesn't really need to be tapped out, only have a hole in it for the hex bolt to pass through and make contact with the k type.

I had everything I needed here so opted to make it rather than buy something that may not work. 20210222_154134.jpg
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Thanks @Johnny Ess and @Ted_Kent
Ted - I cannot picture exactly what you are saying. Perhaps I've done roasting for the week I can take it apart and take a look.
 
Johnny is this what you are looking for? Does specify the 1.5 though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324203451597?var=513263527395&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=513263527395_324203451597&targetid=1139674279347&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045304&poi=&campaignid=12128858326&mkgroupid=122515169451&rlsatarget=aud-629407027145:pla-1139674279347&abcId=9300480&merchantid=232722083&gclid=CjwKCAiAyc2BBhAaEiwA44-wW5lxEW1X13uYkxxnARkx5h0AZeP2GRTbb3-N_0IZe9S97LL77MbTjxoCyX4QAvD_BwE
 
Would something like this work and you just drill out 3mm hollow screw?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A1-A2-A3-Alloy-Wheel-Bolts-Studs-M14-X-1-5-28MM-Taper-17mm-Hex-X4/164155353339?hash=item26386be8fb:g:dPwAAOSw709ejy1n
 
Thanks
Phil.
Phil,

Sorry, I will take some pictures when I finish for the day. The picture I already posted shows the original k type gland with my insert in and the new 3mm k type passing through it and the securing bolt at the 8 o clock ish position.

Its a very simple design though. I use the original k type bolt into the roaster (gland if you like)

I got a piece of round metal (what I call the insert) that fitted the hole of the original part. Drilled that out to 3mm (a touch more from memory maybe 3.2mm) this hole serves the new 3mm k type sensor.

To retail the sensor in place I drilled a hole in the side of the insert and made a thread in that hole.

I then replaced the original grub screw that held the original sensor in place with a longer hex head bolt so it passes through the original gland, into the insert and makes contact with the k type to hold it in place.

I hope that makes sense.
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In addition to the above post as promised that i would add pictures. I cannot seem to edit and add them to the post so they are here as a further reply. 

Large bit is the original dalian k type gland, small bit is the insert that reduced the size to accept a 3mm phidgets k type.

20210223_181653.jpg

20210223_181842.jpg

20210223_181742.jpg

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@frederic

Ok just modding my roaster now. Got the raspberry pi up and running with phidgets and an SSR. Problem is in my testing I can't trigger the SSR to 'dim' the heating element. I've got it attached to a light to test and have also tested it in the gene cafe. Outside of Artisan software I've written a short python script to control the duty cycle which works to turn the light on and off but the finer points within the duty cycle are lost. The SSR seems not to be suitable for the task being a zero-crossing type. I think I need to replace it with a random fire SSR but I wanted to ask you what you're using first and also if you have a snubber circuit on the AC side to protect against surges from rapid switching?

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Hi @Ted_Kent,
Thanks for the detailed instructions - I understand. Not sure I have all the pieces need especially the metal dowel, but can take a look.
Thanks
Phil.
@Dartmoor Coffee annoyingly it was the last bit of 8mm rod I had, otherwise I'd have sent you a bit.........sorry.

There is a ebay seller search 8mm metal rod. A 100mm lengh is £2.90 delivered.
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On 23/02/2021 at 23:33, Rob1 said:

@frederic

Ok just modding my roaster now. Got the raspberry pi up and running with phidgets and an SSR. Problem is in my testing I can't trigger the SSR to 'dim' the heating element. I've got it attached to a light to test and have also tested it in the gene cafe. Outside of Artisan software I've written a short python script to control the duty cycle which works to turn the light on and off but the finer points within the duty cycle are lost. The SSR seems not to be suitable for the task being a zero-crossing type. I think I need to replace it with a random fire SSR but I wanted to ask you what you're using first and also if you have a snubber circuit on the AC side to protect against surges from rapid switching?

@Rob1 I use the SSR (mine is - as most of the ones you find on ebay etc. - a zero-cross type) not to "cut" the sine-curve. I just use it as on-off switch, with a time base of 1 second. For 100% heater power = ON // 10% heater power = 0.1 second on - then 0.9 seconds off. As the heater is just a big resistor, it reacts very "slow" and for me this setup works fine since the beginning - without any additional "snubber" circuits.

Edited by frederic
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Interesting. I tried it just like that and the SSR won't respond fast enough. It can only respond every half cycle as it's zero crossing. I could stretch the timespan out and say 10 seconds on = full power, 9 seconds = 90% and because it's a heating element it isn't going to be rapidly responding so it should work fine. Now I'm looking at burst fire and porportional control SSRs which are zero crossing still but work differently and are designed for light dimming and heating applications. Unfortunately they're about 4x the price of a normal ssr. 

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18 hours ago, Rob1 said:

Interesting. I tried it just like that and the SSR won't respond fast enough. It can only respond every half cycle as it's zero crossing. I could stretch the timespan out and say 10 seconds on = full power, 9 seconds = 90% and because it's a heating element it isn't going to be rapidly responding so it should work fine. Now I'm looking at burst fire and porportional control SSRs which are zero crossing still but work differently and are designed for light dimming and heating applications. Unfortunately they're about 4x the price of a normal ssr. 

Not sure if I understand you right regards the mentioned "... won't respond fast enough".
There are 2 half cycles per sine-wave - and 50-60 sine-waves per second (50-60Hz). So for me 0.1 seconds result in  5 to 6 sine-waves or 10 to 12 half-cycles which should be enough for the SSR to do its job - even if it misses the one or other half-cycle. Am I mistaken here?

Nevertheless I think you can easily extend to a time base of 2..10 seconds, as I think the heater is "slow" enough. 

And just as a note: I use just a plain digital I/O port (no PWM) for switching the SSR ON/OFF. 

Edited by frederic
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3 hours ago, frederic said:

So for me 0.1 seconds result in  5 to 6 sine-waves or 10 to 12 half-cycles which should be enough for the SSR to do its job - even if it misses the one or other half-cycle. Am I mistaken here?

That sounds right to me. My understanding is that at 50 hz the SSR has 100 chances a second to turn on or off. So e.g. to run your heater at 81% power you leave it on for the first 810milliseconds of the second and then turn it off for the remaining 190milliseconds.

Edited by PhilDawes
fix wording
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