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Tony fonda

Does the barista pro's thermojet make dual boilers less relevant?

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33 minutes ago, Tony fonda said:

I am now on the forum that Sage DBs can be very high maintenance and every round trip to the engineers costs £150. Boiler replacements, valves, PID sensors, etc...

Are they that unreliable?

Depends who you ask, some people have had no issues with em since owning em, some haven't , worth bearing in mind they are sold to really wide audience and skill of people ( through john lewis etc ) this means they are more than likely, more sage machines out there than alot of others and being operated by people who might , just might not be feeding em good water and with good practice. 

I had an oracle for what 5 years plus, and it i have never had a thing go wrong with it, Dfk offered you one that seems to have lasted well with no problems. 

Edited by Mrboots2u

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What type of water shall does machines be "fed" with? 

I am guessing from your reply that tap water with regular descaling is not enough...

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One of the important things to consider is where you are in your coffee journey. Not sure if its clear from any of the posts above.

1. I'd say if you are starting out then there is consensus that you can get very tasty coffee from Sage DTP and Gaggia Classic. We can discuss their differences if you'd like.

2. As for grinder, will you be buying a bag of coffee and drinking that until it finishes or do you fancy buying several coffees and alternating between them. If it's the former then your choice of grinders with hoppers is quite vast. If you'd like to alternate then there is not much that competes with the Niche in workflow in its price bracket.



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4 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

One of the important things to consider is where you are in your coffee journey. Not sure if its clear from any of the posts above.

1. I'd say if you are starting out then there is consensus that you can get very tasty coffee from Sage DTP and Gaggia Classic. We can discuss their differences if you'd like.

2. As for grinder, will you be buying a bag of coffee and drinking that until it finishes or do you fancy buying several coffees and alternating between them. If it's the former then your choice of grinders with hoppers is quite vast. If you'd like to alternate then there is not much that competes with the Niche in workflow in its price bracket.



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1) Easy: I have never ever pulled a cup of coffee in my life - just pods.

Bought a Sage DB as first machine as not keen replacing the machine every couple of years.

2) Niche seems to be the consensus. They mailed me back today offering me the Zero for £510 delivered. I am hopping I could get it for less (possibly used) - not in a hurry. Happy to train with cheap Tesco ground coffee for a couple of months.

What about other necessary accessories? I have nothing really. I guess I need a scale of some sort or does the volumetric button in DB circumvent that? Tampers?

 

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Tamper and scales are a must. You want to know how much coffee you’re putting in anyway. I haven’t owned DB, but the tamper that came with DTP wasn’t great.

Then some cloths for steam wand and machine cleaning, some coffee cleaning solution (Cafiza)...

Sometime along the journey I’d suggest getting some WDT (distribution) tool, dosing funnel, VST basket, spare group gaskets, coffee leveller (made by Motta, OCD, Scarlet Espresso, etc), milk jug (if you don’t like sage one), some nice mugs (Acme, Loveceramics, dAncap), group brush (Cafelat, Espazzola), shower screen... well, that’s probably enough for you to go and research (and punch in the credit card numbers few times).

P.S. I wouldn’t recommend buying preground until you get a grinder. It’s a waste of time.

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10 minutes ago, PPapa said:

Tamper and scales are a must. You want to know how much coffee you’re putting in anyway. I haven’t owned DB, but the tamper that came with DTP wasn’t great.

Then some cloths for steam wand and machine cleaning, some coffee cleaning solution (Cafiza)...

Sometime along the journey I’d suggest getting some WDT (distribution) tool, dosing funnel, VST basket, spare group gaskets, coffee leveller (made by Motta, OCD, Scarlet Espresso, etc), milk jug (if you don’t like sage one), some nice mugs (Acme, Loveceramics, dAncap), group brush (Cafelat, Espazzola), shower screen... well, that’s probably enough for you to go and research (and punch in the credit card numbers few times).

P.S. I wouldn’t recommend buying preground until you get a grinder. It’s a waste of time.

Thank you for the exhaustive answer.

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1 hour ago, Tony fonda said:

What type of water shall does machines be "fed" with? 

I am guessing from your reply that tap water with regular descaling is not enough...

It depends one what comes out of your tap. People who live in harder water areas are better off using certain brands of bottled water. The DB comes with a test strip to check water hardness. I'd say from my experiences set the machine one grade harder. Think that the manual mentions best to use an alternative source if hardness is above some level. Read bottled for that.

They come with an efficient water filter fitted which isn't cheap. Using bottled works out significantly cheaper than replacing that. Personally I would still descale some point any way. Maybe set the machine one grade harder than the bottled water is.

The above in real terms applies to any espresso machine. The DB's plus is that unlike most it's easy to descale. Generally "spanners" are needed and even then it may not be easy.

The other aspect is back flushing with cleaning tablets. The DB indicates when to do this. I'd be inclined to do it more often.

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tony fonda said:

I am now on the forum that Sage DBs can be very high maintenance and every round trip to the engineers costs £150. Boiler replacements, valves, PID sensors, etc...

Are they that unreliable?

I saw one recently. Triac board replacement other bits and bobs sub £100 with £50 labour. A fair proportion of the parts that may need replacing at some point are pretty easy to get at.

I'd say look after it and treat it as it should be. At 3 years or sooner it would be wise to replace the O ring seals and clean the level probes. It pays to remember that there are a LOT of them about and the good news is seldom mentioned. Most info is available by searching Breville rather than Sage. How long things last is also likely to relate to shot counts / time on but poor maintenance will screw things up.

I don't think any machine repair done by an espresso machine engineer is going to be cheap. Far from it from the few I have seen and all are likely to need work at some point. That has to be balanced with what the DB offers at it's price. That's tricky but I'd be inclined to say £2000 or so from others and even then it might not have stainless boilers.

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony fonda said:

1) Easy: I have never ever pulled a cup of coffee in my life - just pods.

Bought a Sage DB as first machine as not keen replacing the machine every couple of years.

2) Niche seems to be the consensus. They mailed me back today offering me the Zero for £510 delivered. I am hopping I could get it for less (possibly used) - not in a hurry. Happy to train with cheap Tesco ground coffee for a couple of months.

What about other necessary accessories? I have nothing really. I guess I need a scale of some sort or does the volumetric button in DB circumvent that? Tampers?

 

cheap coffee will train your to make poor coffee. pre ground will teach you not to use pre ground..

unless you see a second hand one , then the price will stay the price . 

get some scales, do not rely on volumetrics....


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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24 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

cheap coffee will train your to make poor coffee. pre ground will teach you not to use pre ground..

unless you see a second hand one , then the price will stay the price . 

get some scales, do not rely on volumetrics....

Noted.

Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.

Are any of those good enough?

Edited by Tony fonda

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Never in my experience.

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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52 minutes ago, Tony fonda said:

Noted.

Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.

Are any of those good enough?

imho no.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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There is no harm in trying them but I wouldn't hold out your hopes. My bother uses one Tesco bean in an aeropress. It's ok that way but I find it very weak. Tried it in an espresso machine and it was crap. Also tried Lavaza beans that are fine for me in a french press - crap again, Curiously an espresso blend was the opposite way round  and wasn't too bad but high caffeine so probably loads of robusta.

Go to commercial packs and things can be different but ones I have bought come in a 1kg pack and I would only recommend one of the two pure arabica I tried.

John

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Edited by ajohn

In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony fonda said:

Noted.

Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.

Are any of those good enough?

Depends on your taste:whistle:

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2 hours ago, Tony fonda said:

Noted.

Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.

Are any of those good enough?

£25 at CoffeeBeanShop will get you a selection of 4 or 5 bags of beans delivered to your door.  Chuck all bar one or 2 bags in the freezer, leave the first bags for a few days or so and away you go.  They deliver quickly too.  If you want to spend more, of course you can, but they're pretty nice in my book.


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Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angles.

SDB is being shipped and Niche will follow soon.

Now I can see that quality beans range from £20 to £50 per kg. I should perhaps stick to packs of 200gms since I only drink 2 cups per week. I equally understand that freezing is not recommended. Where could I find a source of reasonably priced, freshly roasted, espresso grade beans to start learning with?

Edited by Tony fonda

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Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angle.
SDB is being shipped and Niche will follow soon.
Now I can see that quality beans range from £20 to £50kg. I should perhaps stick to packs of 200gms since I only drink 2 cups per week. I equally understand that freezing is not recommended. Where could I find a source of reasonably priced, freshly roasted, espresso grade beans to start learning with?
Coffee Compass do a mystery coffee for a very good price. It's sold by the kilo but that'll give you plenty enough to learn how to dial in & use the DB.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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4 minutes ago, ashcroc said:
14 minutes ago, Tony fonda said:
Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angle.
SDB is being shipped and Niche will follow soon.
Now I can see that quality beans range from £20 to £50kg. I should perhaps stick to packs of 200gms since I only drink 2 cups per week. I equally understand that freezing is not recommended. Where could I find a source of reasonably priced, freshly roasted, espresso grade beans to start learning with?

Coffee Compass do a mystery coffee for a very good price. It's sold by the kilo but that'll give you plenty enough to learn how to dial in & use the DB.

OK thanks. What is Mark 11? 11th edition or something?

How have the previous 10 been? Hopefully not cheap stuff repackaged at a premium. Are we getting single origin arabica beans here?

And last, how do I deal with th excess: Freezing, sous-viding (got one of those from Lidl) or else? 1 KG will take me a long time to drink...

 

 

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I don't but my understanding is lots freeze beans.

If you want something cheaper that I doubt if anyone would object to and should still be usable up to circa 6 weeks these may suite

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFC0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rather a lot but you may use a couple of hundred grams playing around. They behave in much the same way as fresh roasted do.

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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1 minute ago, ajohn said:

I don't but my understanding is lots freeze beans.

If you want something cheaper that I doubt if anyone would object to and should still be usable up to circa 6 weeks these may suite

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFC0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rather a lot but you may use a couple of hundred grams playing around. They behave in much the same way as fresh roasted do.

John

-

£14 per Kg again...interesting. Gteed arabica at least, but a blend by the looks of it.

What is the consensus on this: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/250349821

Lots of cafes in Italy use it...

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And one more tangent: is roasting coffee at home a thing? Do you know any who do it or is it pushing the envelop too far?

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OK thanks. What is Mark 11? 11th edition or something?
How have the previous 10 been? Hopefully not cheap stuff repackaged at a premium. Are we getting single origin arabica beans here?
And last, how do I deal with th excess: Freezing, sous-viding (got one of those from Lidl) or else? 1 KG will take me a long time to drink...
 
 


It's the 11th mystery bean they've done. Don't worry about the quality, they'd charge more for it if they told us what it actually is.
Quite a few members will vac-pack (either the whole bag or split into more manageable quantities) & freeze for not much detriment. You can actually grind straight from frozen but if freezing in larger than single quantities, it's better to let them defrost fully before opening the bag so the moisture in the air doesn't condense on them.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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:) You might have so many problems roasting that you might never sort out using the espresso machine.

I suspect that many of the beans sold off supermarket shelves are processed in a way that make them more suitable for brewing with other methods.

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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I am now looking for a good tamper to go with the SDB - so many options out there. Which size shall I go for? Rubber or not? palm? etc...

And any specific suggestions otherwise?

Edited by Tony fonda

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