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Tony fonda

Does the barista pro's thermojet make dual boilers less relevant?

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I haven't used this machine so not sure if the thermojet can match the power of a dual boiler. It would be an achievement if it could.

Beyond that the dual boiler will also be able to brew and steam at the same time.
It will have better temperature stability. The dual boiler also has a heated group head which is really good. Finally the grinders on the Sages are not highly regarded.

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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4 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

I haven't used this machine so not sure if the thermojet can match the power of a dual boiler. It would be an achievement if it could.

Beyond that the dual boiler will also be able to brew and steam at the same time.
It will have better temperature stability. The dual boiler also has a heated group head which is really good. Finally the grinders on the Sages are not highly regarded.

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i See. if that is the case, I am better off buying a dual temp pro sans grinder in that case. I can't justify spending 4 times this amount for a second boiler.

Any suggestions for a good mid-priced grinder to go with the DTP?

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20 minutes ago, Tony fonda said:

i See. if that is the case, I am better off buying a dual temp pro sans grinder in that case. I can't justify spending 4 times this amount for a second boiler.

Any suggestions for a good mid-priced grinder to go with the DTP?

What's your definition of mid priced? As you'll find the figure varies wildly from person to person

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Yeah I don’t think DB and Barista Pro are comparable. The former has a 58mm portafilter (more accessories/baskets available), heated group and hopefully a bit quieter than a thermocoil.

DTP will most likely yield similar results in the cup to be honest. You can grab them quite cheap if you get a second hand/refurbished one. That leaves a ton of cash for a grinder and some accessories (scales, knock box, nicer tamper, etc).

In terms of grinders, you won’t go wrong with Eureka or Ceado range. It really depends on what’s mid-budget!

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How many people actually steam and pull a shot at the same time I wonder ? 

DB used to have some flexibility on how long you could pre infuse for and altering pump pressure through some menus. 

 

 

Edited by Mrboots2u

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4 minutes ago, PPapa said:

Yeah I don’t think DB and Barista Pro are comparable. The former has a 58mm portafilter (more accessories/baskets available), heated group and hopefully a bit quieter than a thermocoil.

DTP will most likely yield similar results in the cup to be honest. You can grab them quite cheap if you get a second hand/refurbished one. That leaves a ton of cash for a grinder and some accessories (scales, knock box, nicer tamper, etc).

In terms of grinders, you won’t go wrong with Eureka or Ceado range. It really depends on what’s mid-budget!

Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?

Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.

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1 minute ago, Tony fonda said:

Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?

Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.

niche is more expensivrle but good quality the burrs on this are way superior than a sage or entry eurkea , suggest more research required here on this as unsure what your opinion is based on.

sage pro bottom end of grinders.

better grinder , better coffee 


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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1 minute ago, Mrboots2u said:

niche is more expensivrle but good quality the burrs on this are way superior than a sage or entry eurkea , suggest more research required here on this as unsure what your opinion is based on.

sage pro bottom end of grinders.

better grinder , better coffee 

Got you. Yes I am at the beginning of the journey here. Only consensus I am finding so far is on the DTP and am hoping that the milk frothing is up to par.

I was originally tempted by the BE and possibly the pro if it were to drop in price on black Friday, but many are advising for a non-sage grinder instead.

How shall I choose? is Eureka Mignon the way to go?

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The grinder is the most important bit of kit you need to focus on. Everything depends on your budget.

You can get a used Sage Dual Boiler in eBay for £400 to £500.

Used Sage DTP - £170

Used Eureka Mignon - £220

Used medium to large high quality commercial grinder - £150 to £250

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?
Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.

Eureka Mignon, Atom, 65E, 75E...
Ceado E37, E37s...

Depends on your budget and needs. There’s really no such grinder that’s an overkill for a given machine.

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1 hour ago, M_H_S said:

The grinder is the most important bit of kit you need to focus on. Everything depends on your budget.

You can get a used Sage Dual Boiler in eBay for £400 to £500.

Used Sage DTP - £170

Used Eureka Mignon - £220

Used medium to large high quality commercial grinder - £150 to £250

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Yes OK. Happy to pay 200 for a new DTP (AO drops the price every now and then).

Where can I find used mignons besides ebay? Are they reliable when bought used? Is the Niche much better than the Eureka?

 

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24 minutes ago, PPapa said:


Eureka Mignon, Atom, 65E, 75E...
Ceado E37, E37s...

Depends on your budget and needs. There’s really no such grinder that’s an overkill for a given machine.

Got you. Time to choose. Is their an optimal price point for a grinder abovr which improvements become less noticiable? Say the infliction point of the grind performance curve....

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1 hour ago, M_H_S said:

I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.

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I am the only coffee drinker in the household.... How does thr DTP frothing wand perform?

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1 hour ago, Mrboots2u said:

How many people actually steam and pull a shot at the same time I wonder ? 

DB used to have some flexibility on how long you could pre infuse for and altering pump pressure through some menus. 

 

 

Its more the time you have to wait between brewing, steaming and back again.  Its not particularly long but it does become a bit of a faff when doing several drinks.  Plus whilst the DTP can steam 2 drinks worth of milk at a time, but it'll struggle with a bigger jug.  Thinking about it, I suspect a DB wouldn't actually be much quicker given the time to grind the beans and get more milk, but it feels frustrating and that's a good enough excuse to look at new toys :)


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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3 minutes ago, Tony fonda said:

I am the only coffee drinker in the household.... How does thr DTP frothing wand perform?

Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.

 

If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine.  John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years.  I think both will price match.  I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.

Edited by pgarrish

Sage DTP | Santos #4

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Got you. Time to choose. Is their an optimal price point for a grinder abovr which improvements become less noticiable? Say the infliction point of the grind performance curve....

Anything under £150 (new) won’t be good for espresso, the changes will be noticeable until you hit the higher end of big flat burrs (Ceado E37s, Eureka 75E...) and then you’ve got some titan class grinders.

Hard to tell to be honest, as improvements can be measured in the cup, workflow, noise, size, etc... some won’t like the noise or messiness of EK43 (hard to work around 1300W motor), some might not like workflow of Mythos, some might want RPM adjustments and the looks of a Kafatek...

Starting out with a used grinder is probably the way to go as you can then sell it for similar price and keep upgrading until you’re happy. That way you don’t lose much money and it lets you try out different grinders.

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I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.

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Only if it doesn’t sacrifice a choice of grinder...

Steaming on DTP is fine, just slow.

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33 minutes ago, pgarrish said:

Its more the time you have to wait between brewing, steaming and back again.  Its not particularly long but it does become a bit of a faff when doing several drinks.  Plus whilst the DTP can steam 2 drinks worth of milk at a time, but it'll struggle with a bigger jug.  Thinking about it, I suspect a DB wouldn't actually be much quicker given the time to grind the beans and get more milk, but it feels frustrating and that's a good enough excuse to look at new toys :)

Got you but i still don't get the DB appeal. If I want a second boiler, I could add this next to a DTP:

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dualit-cino-milk-steamer/cn452?vatToggle=incvat&gclid=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfvsBRD7ARIsAKuDvMNlWo_6Ws7ODrCosj1jFqNs2Wb-Bk-TA7SnM5nmnb4VkrvUjzWVCwEaAhrGEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PLA-_-1665274984-_-63901011506-_-CN452&cm_mmca1=go_1665274984_63901011506_321523756444_pla-599979232705_c_

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Just now, Tony fonda said:

 

32 minutes ago, pgarrish said:

Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.

 

If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine.  John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years.  I think both will price match.  I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.

Got you but i still don't get the DB appeal. If I want a second boiler, I could add this next to a DTP:

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dualit-cino-milk-steamer/cn452?vatToggle=incvat&gclid=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfvsBRD7ARIsAKuDvMNlWo_6Ws7ODrCosj1jFqNs2Wb-Bk-TA7SnM5nmnb4VkrvUjzWVCwEaAhrGEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PLA-_-1665274984-_-63901011506-_-CN452&cm_mmca1=go_1665274984_63901011506_321523756444_pla-599979232705_c_

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30 minutes ago, PPapa said:


Only if it doesn’t sacrifice a choice of grinder...

Steaming on DTP is fine, just slow.

 

31 minutes ago, PPapa said:


Anything under £150 (new) won’t be good for espresso, the changes will be noticeable until you hit the higher end of big flat burrs (Ceado E37s, Eureka 75E...) and then you’ve got some titan class grinders.

Hard to tell to be honest, as improvements can be measured in the cup, workflow, noise, size, etc... some won’t like the noise or messiness of EK43 (hard to work around 1300W motor), some might not like workflow of Mythos, some might want RPM adjustments and the looks of a Kafatek...

Starting out with a used grinder is probably the way to go as you can then sell it for similar price and keep upgrading until you’re happy. That way you don’t lose much money and it lets you try out different grinders.

Great advice. Where would the Niche or Baratza Forte sit on the curve, compared to the Eureak 75E?

And where to buy a used grinder from?

Edited by Tony fonda

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36 minutes ago, pgarrish said:

Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.

 

If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine.  John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years.  I think both will price match.  I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.

I think I am with you on this. DTP can be had new for £200 it seems. Does the Niche drop in price at all? 

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I have a BE and the milk is perfectly good once you get the technique.

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