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M_H_S

New single dose flat burr grinder

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The EG-1 was very easy to live with, similar to the Verslab.

Of course it is a larger grinder than the Versalab, and the grind adjustment is stepped as opposed to continuous.

In the end i decided to keep the Versalab because of its smaller footprint, grind quality, ease of use and quirky looks.

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Slayer One Group ; Versalab M3/4

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Could you say how the EG-1 was like to live with please 
You know you want to.......



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3 minutes ago, Planter said:

You know you want to.......

emoji6.png

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I also have the relevant permissions 👍😂..   However there are other options which I am thinking about . This thread has opened a whole can of worms in my mind 🤯. I also have had my Nouveau Simonelli 64mm apart looking at ways to improve its options as a single doser for decaf 🥴 .

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That's the trouble. Start looking too much and you'll never make a decision.

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13 minutes ago, Nicknak said:

I also have the relevant permissions 👍😂..   However there are other options which I am thinking about . This thread has opened a whole can of worms in my mind 🤯. I also have had my Nouveau Simonelli 64mm apart looking at ways to improve its options as a single doser for decaf 🥴 .

ZM zm ZM

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LR, ZM

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Just now, Fez said:

ZM zm ZM

🤯😂..  ZM something that is  in my head . Are  you single dosing yours ? If so how does it do ?

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Is there any data or reviews on how the best flat burr single dosers compare to the best hopper fed flat burr grinders?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I also have the relevant permissions ..   However there are other options which I am thinking about . This thread has opened a whole can of worms in my mind . I also have had my Nouveau Simonelli 64mm apart looking at ways to improve its options as a single doser for decaf .
What's your shortlist? What do you have now?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Yup single dosing.  Mine is older manual version so with no timer single dosing is the only option. 

It's been pretty great! Retention is near enough negligible .3g is the most I've had. If not adjusting the grind then it's usually what goes in, comes out. 

Would only recommend grinding into a metal cup as straight into the portafilter is a faff.

I can't speak for the standard burrs as I haven't tried them, but with the SSP burrs shots have been great!

 

Maybe @Hasi can chime in with his thoughts on the electronic version

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LR, ZM

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13 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

What's your shortlist? What do you have now?

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Before the HG-1 came along I had  Eureka Zenith 64mm and a Nouva Simonelli 64 basically the same grinders . Both have I believe the same auger arrangement as the Mythos . I have been playing around with the decaf one as a partial low dose and tamper . With no tamper weight to get a decent shot it take two hole numbers finer. The auger is quite tall so I have been pondering about machining up a funnel and a weight  (whole in the middle) to go over the auger to get closer the burrs and try a true single dose .

Short list was EG-1 and monolith flat (Max But very difficult to get hold off) Ideally something manufactured as a single doser with tight tolerances .

 

Edited by Nicknak

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I have been reading a little into all of this . Something that intrigues me is that the Mythos 75mm burrs have a 38mm centre , many 83mm burrs have a lot bigger centre hole in the burrs . So if bigger burrs are better owing to the route the beans go through is longer could the Mythos burrs be equivalent to say the Mazzer 83mm burrs . I have seen this being quoted .I guess bigger burrs started being used as they generate a faster grind .

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14 minutes ago, Nicknak said:

I have been reading a little into all of this . Something that intrigues me is that the Mythos 75mm burrs have a 38mm centre , many 83mm burrs have a lot bigger centre hole in the burrs . So if bigger burrs are better owing to the route the beans go through is longer could the Mythos burrs be equivalent to say the Mazzer 83mm burrs . I have seen this being quoted .I guess bigger burrs started being used as they generate a faster grind .

The bigger hole means more g forcing the beans into the burrs - assuming both run at the same speed and that aspect can vary on some grinders. There after comes the variations on the teeth of the burrs. The majority are very similar. Titanium is said to remove the need for running in. I can believe that as the coating process dulls edges a little. They are also said to last longer but for home use that is a mixed advantage. A flat burr grinder probably needs around 5kg or more running through it and going on my experiences ideally a goodly proportion of that needs to be at espresso levels. A kg with occasional visits to espresso levels may improve clumping. Same with 2 but for me daily use has finished them off and some beans will clump anyway when used hopper on. Take the static device out and weigh in and there may be no clumping at all.

When a grinder is used hopper on etc the entire grinds path is full of coffee that means more force is needed to fully drive the grinds out especially when there is an antistatic screen of some sort on the way out. As they go out more slowly this usually means that the grind has to be opened up compared with weighing in. When weighing in beans are bounced about and break up - this is said to interfere with particle distribution changes in what comes out. Personally I feel that why this happens could just be down to the differing grinder settings and in any case bean bounce can be dramatically reduced via adding a weight - much as people  do who use tube hoppers.

I didn't think that either of the grinders you mention had augers. Where I have seen them in coffee grinders they are similar to the "screw" arrangement used in hand operated and other meat grinders.

John

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Yup single dosing.  Mine is older manual version so with no timer single dosing is the only option. 
It's been pretty great! Retention is near enough negligible .3g is the most I've had. If not adjusting the grind then it's usually what goes in, comes out. 
Would only recommend grinding into a metal cup as straight into the portafilter is a faff.
I can't speak for the standard burrs as I haven't tried them, but with the SSP burrs shots have been great!
 
Maybe @Hasi can chime in with his thoughts on the electronic version
single dosing and bag grinding here. Haven't used timer function as I am yet to build a PF holder for it as is, you can't grind directly at all - too much spray from plastic chute.
Love digital adjustment (0.001mm 'steps') and automatic homing (which comes up upon every tenth or so time you switch it on, or on demand through menu). Great, great stuff that!
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3 minutes ago, Hasi said:

single dosing and bag grinding here. Haven't used timer function as I am yet to build a PF holder for it emoji56.png as is, you can't grind directly at all - too much spray from plastic chute.
Love digital adjustment (0.001mm 'steps') and automatic homing (which comes up upon every tenth or so time you switch it on, or on demand through menu). Great, great stuff that!

Do you use any weight on top ? Or pour the beans and go ? 

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single dosing and bag grinding here. Haven't used timer function as I am yet to build a PF holder for it as is, you can't grind directly at all - too much spray from plastic chute.
Love digital adjustment (0.001mm 'steps') and automatic homing (which comes up upon every tenth or so time you switch it on, or on demand through menu). Great, great stuff that!
Is it really 0.001mm or 0.01mm? Latter is doable, former is bs imho.

As for re-homing I've heard reports that it's an absolute bitch to work with as it interrupts grinding and is slow.

T.

Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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Sorry but what is homing exactly?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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50 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

Sorry but what is homing exactly?

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I’m guessing but sets up the alignment of the burrs ?

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It zeroes the burrs, so gets them to touch (or the probe touches a reference point), registers that as 0.00mm and goes back to the previous setting. No idea why they have to do this so often.

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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Gimmick or beneficial?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Gimmick or beneficial?

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Possibly either but if anything, would be more beneficial in a commercial environment. Can't say I've ever noticed the grind setting slip on my mignon but I do adjust as the beans age to keep it dialed in so it's possible.
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Laissez les bons temps rouler

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I've got this on my diy grinder, it makes sense when you fit new burrs or take things apart, but that rarely happens. In a commercial setting I can't see the point of doing it often as to do it you have to empty the burr chamber. The only reason you'd want to do it is if smth inside the burr chamber changes like burrs get replaced, but then going back to the exact gap setting is pointless anyway. I can imagine there's fluctuations from temperature differences but again, it's pointless to re-zero anything, as you'd adjust to taste anyway.

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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Great thread!  Thanks. @M_H_S👍

It’s been interesting to hear what folk think about single dosers and the inherent issues / solutions.

Need more like this.

 

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Thanks. I still have quite a few unanswered questions which I thought a number of the seasoned members would have answers for but I guess they are unsettled matters still. E.g.

1. Detailed differences in conical and flat burr grinders. Not just taste but being able to pull longer and slower shots for example.

2. Do flat burr single dosers match the quality of commercial hoppered flat burr grinders?

3. If horizontally mounted auger fed grinders are best for single dosing, then why go for the tilted concept? There should just a be loads of miniature Ek43s about!

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Oh I completely forgot no one has yet mentioned the Ceado single dosers or Titus Grinding.

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It zeroes the burrs, so gets them to touch (or the probe touches a reference point), registers that as 0.00mm and goes back to the previous setting. No idea why they have to do this so often.

T.
your answer is here, right where you've called bs:
Is it really 0.001mm or 0.01mm? Latter is doable, former is bs imho.

As for re-homing I've heard reports that it's an absolute bitch to work with as it interrupts grinding and is slow.

T.

yes it really is 0.001mm, so in order to stay that accurate recalibration is a necessity.
but, please elaborate your judgement of the accuracy being bs. I'd love to hear your thoughts because I've seen the Minima choke for good with an offset of 'way' less than 0.01mm (think it was 0.004 in the end)

Speaking from other actual experience, homing will never interrupt a grind job. As I said earlier it comes up every now and then upon powering up the machine. There's absolutely nothing bitchy about it
Homing is slow, yes, but in a commercial setting (which definitely is the intended use case for this monster) it won't really matter. You start a workday well before using any machinery with prepping, planning, administering...
In fact the ZM is an absolute pleasure to work with. Until you need to move it around that is
Do you use any weight on top ? Or pour the beans and go ? 
it's got a pretty solid auger so feeds itself without weight When single dosing, I pour from bean cellars into hopper and grind them straight through. Hopper has a microswitch safety mechanism. So, unless you cut perspex off you cannot grind without it attached.
Same goes for exit chute. This is the only thing they should improve in future as it tends to dislocate slightly when clapping bag clip against chute to shake out remaining grinds. You'd then get a message saying there's no bag holder in place. Grinding one bag after the other, rhis can be annoying tbh. Luckily doesn't happen that often


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