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M_H_S

New single dose flat burr grinder

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You need the tilt to use flat burrs at low speed, I've heard / read somewhere that the lowest you need for flats is around 500RPM.
 
T.
 
 
And the benefit of low speed besides heat transfer? I.e. On particle size?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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And the benefit of low speed besides heat transfer? I.e. On particle size?

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they become particles slower
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they become particles slower
Profound!

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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The problem with some aspects of tilt relate to what Hasi pointed out also that G force sends the beans into the burs and they come out all round them and are then swept out, lifted against gravity on one side and pushed with it on the other. No G force pushing the beans into the burs to break them up and they wont grind.

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

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I used to think low speed was good, now I think that there's a minimum speed for every burrset and it's probably never below 500RPM. As for tilted flat burrs imho it produces a different profile when running slow as the burrs will mostly grind with the surfaces nearer the bottom of the tilt. At higher speeds it probably doesn't matter as centrifugal force takes over everything.

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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9 hours ago, dsc said:

I used to think low speed was good, now I think that there's a minimum speed for every burrset and it's probably never below 500RPM. As for tilted flat burrs imho it produces a different profile when running slow as the burrs will mostly grind with the surfaces nearer the bottom of the tilt. At higher speeds it probably doesn't matter as centrifugal force takes over everything.

T.

You might find this calculator useful to put some numbers on that

http://www.endmemo.com/bio/grpm.php

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

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It's not very helpful as I've got no idea at what level of g-force beans self feed. It also depends heavily on burr geometry, cutting surface angles etc.

T.

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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

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16 hours ago, Planter said:

It does say the following on their site....

 

For EU customers: We are able to collect Euro and pre-pay import duty/tax, so you won’t need to worry about getting any unexpected bill when it arrives in your country.

 

But there will more than likely be a VAT charge, depending on how they ship it. 

That's not very clear either then.

Going off what you say, they may be delivering it to some sort of forwarding address in the EU. If they are, they will pay local taxes and then be able to send it on without V.A.T. being incurred ... at the minute, but these grinders are pre order for January and we're supposed to be leaving the EU on Halloween.

Or maybe they just pay customs charges before sending? I've never known this to happen, but I'd imagine it's possible. What British companies normally d when sending stuff the other waay is knock off the V.A.T. ( none is officially payable if leaving the country ) and leave it to the customer to sort locally with their customs.

It all depends whether we're in the EU or not, although it matters little to me, I couldn't afford it if I was willing to pay it.

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11 hours ago, dsc said:

I used to think low speed was good, now I think that there's a minimum speed for every burrset and it's probably never below 500RPM. As for tilted flat burrs imho it produces a different profile when running slow as the burrs will mostly grind with the surfaces nearer the bottom of the tilt. At higher speeds it probably doesn't matter as centrifugal force takes over everything.

T.

I read a snippet that you designed and built your grinder .. Did you go for a tilt ? 

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That's not very clear either then.
Going off what you say, they may be delivering it to some sort of forwarding address in the EU. If they are, they will pay local taxes and then be able to send it on without V.A.T. being incurred ... at the minute, but these grinders are pre order for January and we're supposed to be leaving the EU on Halloween.
Or maybe they just pay customs charges before sending? I've never known this to happen, but I'd imagine it's possible. What British companies normally d when sending stuff the other waay is knock off the V.A.T. ( none is officially payable if leaving the country ) and leave it to the customer to sort locally with their customs.
It all depends whether we're in the EU or not, although it matters little to me, I couldn't afford it if I was willing to pay it.
Yep totally agree. There are definitely some bits which you would ideally want clarifying if purchasing.

Makes a big difference whether it is or isn't included.

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I didn't have to as back then I was using a conical burrset. Now I'm planning to switch to a flat burrset and I need to tilt to be able to grind at lower speeds (the machine can only do 200rpm tops). Kind of a ballache as it's not really designed with a tilt, so I'll either have to balance it somehow at 45deg, run it sitting on it's back, or rebuild it:/

T.

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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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14 minutes ago, dsc said:

I didn't have to as back then I was using a conical burrset. Now I'm planning to switch to a flat burrset and I need to tilt to be able to grind at lower speeds (the machine can only do 200rpm tops). Kind of a ballache as it's not really designed with a tilt, so I'll either have to balance it somehow at 45deg, run it sitting on it's back, or rebuild it:/

T.

A rebuild would be interesting for some of us but a faff for you . Have to find the thread again and read more .

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More of a cost + time issue, original built was way over 3k, so I'm not that crazy about throw more cash at it :)

T.

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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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What do you guys make of the red speed ssp burrs. They have a consistent fan geometry like the ek43 or Guatemala. The company says this produces a unimodal grind and requires greater torque to work. If true we are looking at mini ek43 taste profile. I have heard ek43 owners remark that it is sweeter and clearer.

 

An interesting experiment I think is to fit 65mm Guatemala burrs to a k30 and give it a spin. Any takers?

 

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Guatemala K22 has 71mm burrs, Guatemala SB has 73mm burrs, and I believe Guatemala Lab has 64mm burrs.

Kenya has 64mm burrs, Favorite 2at has 64mm burrs, ProM has 64mm burrs.

A grinder with horizontal burrs will never have the same result as a grinder with augur and vertical burrs (you comparison Lagom versus ek43). They need totally different rpm, system for charging the beans, and so on.

Edited by Zwanger
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Guatemala K22 has 71mm burrs, Guatemala SB has 73mm burrs, and I believe Guatemala Lab has 64mm burrs.
Kenya has 64mm burrs, Favorite 2at has 64mm burrs, ProM has 64mm burrs.
A grinder with horizontal burrs will never have the same result as a grinder with augur and vertical burrs (you comparison Lagom versus ek43). They need totally different rpm, system for charging the beans, and so on.
Can you explain why the results are different and what are the ideal rpms?

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How would I know such thing? you need to make a bunch of laser analysis and even then it depends on how brittle the beans are, because the results can change from a roast level to another. You wont find this information anyway.

And to make a grinder work at 200rpm you need a lot of torque. So you either need a strong motor, or a multiplying belt torque system. If it's to weak, with light roasts it will just go stall.

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According to the post by Titus Grinding it looks as though they are interchangeable.

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I have a serious gripe of the single doser regarding the price with the exception of the Niche to some extent.

If we are talking about flat burr single dosers being standard grinders mounted at a tilt then it should be possible to have a Eureka Mignon single doser variant coming in at £350 or so. Am I being over simplistic and naive?

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Instead we have the ek43, eg1, monolith and Option O to chose from!! All well over £1000!

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12 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

Instead we have the ek43, eg1, monolith and Option O to chose from!! All well over £1000!

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Yes until the big boys in the grinder world realise there is a good market in the at home market . I suppose as well when we buy secondhand Mazzers etc we help them sell new ones to cafes etc . So I guess for now it is down to the small manufactures like Lynn Webber etc 

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I have a serious gripe of the single doser regarding the price with the exception of the Niche to some extent.

If we are talking about flat burr single dosers being standard grinders mounted at a tilt then it should be possible to have a Eureka Mignon single doser variant coming in at £350 or so. Am I being over simplistic and naive?

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Single dosing isn't that great, it produces a gradually coarsening grind and it's not how burrs are really designed to be used. It works, but imho it's worse than doser fed grinding.

T.
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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

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Single dosing isn't that great, it produces a gradually coarsening grind and it's not how burrs are really designed to be used. It works, but imho it's worse than doser fed grinding.

T.
Yes agreed. Hence a single dosing grinder cannot claim to be competitive in grind quality unless it can find a way around this problem. My assumption has always been that monoliths, eg1 and others have over come this problem to justify their price points

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Versalab is the only grinder which works around it by having a double burrset, one for prec-crushing which feeds the second, proper burrset. Everything else on the market suffers from the coarsening grind effect.

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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