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New single dose flat burr grinder

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https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64

 

What do people make of the new single dose flat burr grinder from Option O formerly Helor I think. Its called the Lagom and has 64mm burrs. Standard or SSP red speed. I like it given I have been struggling to get the taste profile I want from the Niche.

 

When I saw 600 dollars I was quite pleased only to realise its the reservation fee towards around 1500 dollars. I think Aussie dollars. It may also have variable speed though can't tell.

 

The ssp redspeed burrs look interesting as they have the same burr geometry as ek43 burrs and are meant to give a unimodal grind.

 

They also say no rdt or wdt needed! Any buyers in here already?

 

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64
 
What do people make of the new single dose flat burr grinder from Option O formerly Helor I think. Its called the Lagom and has 64mm burrs. Standard or SSP red speed. I like it given I have been struggling to get the taste profile I want from the Niche.
 
When I saw 600 dollars I was quite pleased only to realise its the reservation fee towards around 1500 dollars. I think Aussie dollars. It may also have variable speed though can't tell.
 
The ssp redspeed burrs look interesting as they have the same burr geometry as ek43 burrs and are meant to give a unimodal grind.
 
They also say no rdt or wdt needed! Any buyers in here already?
 
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It's US dollars.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Great over a grand then! I propose we all buy super jollies. Extract motor and mount diagonally. Bobs almost your uncle... In theory at least!

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Great over a grand then! I propose we all buy super jollies. Extract motor and mount diagonally. Bobs almost your uncle... In theory at least!

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As far as your theory goes, have you tried getting out an SJ motor assembly?



But rumour has it that I know some people that know some people that are having certain... ideas... around subject matter!
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I have a motor already just being lazy at the moment but I am dreaming big.

I would love to start a technical discussion about how it's far more important to get uniform grind from single dosing in these new grinders rather than zero retention which I think is far easier.

For example, does tilting deal with this? Is it a slower speed? A narrower grind chamber? Etc?

I know for a fact that single dosing a k30 and ceado e37s produces grind far inferior to what they are normally capable of. But the e37sd looks identical!

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I have seen some info on this. But lack of betas or feedback from testing seems very limited for some reason. Although helor do have a good background.

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Just confirmed that it has variable speed 200 to 1200 rpm

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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So what are Forumites' views about particle size distribution? Does the tilt resolve this or is it the speed?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Pic97977ca0c7562978b14631119b4b1fad.jpg

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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22 hours ago, M_H_S said:

Great over a grand then! 

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£1300 with the redspeed burrs, then if it's coming from the US there will be 20% V.A.T.  plus handling fee, plus shipping, plus the banks exchange rate and possible charges. It should be yours for around £1600, but that's only if you move quickly and secure one before the discount ends.

That's a lot of money.

Edited by cold war kid
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Every time I get to see it I'm thinking of a microscope... which is interesting and disturbing at the same time :D

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34 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

So what are Forumites' views about particle size distribution? Does the tilt resolve this or is it the speed?

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I am no expert , but from what I have read all the top single dosers are concentrating on alignment of the burrs in all planes . As single dosing affects the particle size  distribution and generally you have to adjust the grinder finer having perfectly aligned burrs would allow finer grinds . Very fine tolerances on the shafts and bearings .. They also seem to be looking at burr geometry. Higher speeds could make any misalignment worse . Delivery of the beans to the burrs will effect popcorning . I believe the tilt assists with the retention . Other than that I haven’t a clue 😂😂😂

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Tilt is there to make grounds exit the chamber efficiently. Which relates to particle size: build-up around the burrs will trap following grounds in between - so they have to do extra laps.

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16 minutes ago, Hasi said:

Tilt is there to make grounds exit the chamber efficiently. Which relates to particle size: build-up around the burrs will trap following grounds in between - so they have to do extra laps.

Yep , it will grind finer generally .. also having efficient wipers and a short exit path help 🙄

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How many Kg have you put through your Niche? Tried changes from your usual dose and ratio.

There is a video of the grinder shown in the photo - wonder if that is from a design package rather than a photo of an actual grinder

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hasi said:

Every time I get to see it I'm thinking of a microscope... which is interesting and disturbing at the same time :D

Exactly - I just have to put my eye up against it. And whoever visits, will be doing the same.

'More coffee and eyelashes anyone...?'

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£1300 with the redspeed burrs, then if it's coming from the US there will be 20% V.A.T.  plus handling fee, plus shipping, plus the banks exchange rate and possible charges. It should be yours for around £1600, but that's only if you move quickly and secure one before the discount ends.
That's a lot of money.
Omg I thought it was an Australian company! What? that's a discounted price?!

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I am no expert , but from what I have read all the top single dosers are concentrating on alignment of the burrs in all planes . As single dosing affects the particle size  distribution and generally you have to adjust the grinder finer having perfectly aligned burrs would allow finer grinds . Very fine tolerances on the shafts and bearings .. They also seem to be looking at burr geometry. Higher speeds could make any misalignment worse . Delivery of the beans to the burrs will effect popcorning . I believe the tilt assists with the retention . Other than that I haven’t a clue
I'm not sure about not having a clue. Your constructive thoughts are the kind I was looking for as at the end of the day we are all lay enthusiasts making educated guesses.

Yes like I was thinking alignment is irrelevant to wider distribution while single dosing. But interesting that I didn't consider that the tilt allows for better exit and thus similar amount of beans being ground at any one time. Its also interesting that the tilt means that it is mostly the lower part of the burr chamber is where most grinding is taking place.

Has anyone read what the tilt should be in angles or it is not that relevant? Just from looking they all seem to be around 30 degrees or so.



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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Tilt is there to make grounds exit the chamber efficiently. Which relates to particle size: build-up around the burrs will trap following grounds in between - so they have to do extra laps.
Great point! Tilt is the way to go then. Any thoughts on speed and width pathway feeding grind chamber?

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Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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The main purpose of tilt is to shorten the path out of the grind chamber to a point where it can go into a portafilter.

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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3 hours ago, cold war kid said:

£1300 with the redspeed burrs, then if it's coming from the US there will be 20% V.A.T.  plus handling fee, plus shipping, plus the banks exchange rate and possible charges. It should be yours for around £1600, but that's only if you move quickly and secure one before the discount ends.

That's a lot of money.

It does say the following on their site....

 

For EU customers: We are able to collect Euro and pre-pay import duty/tax, so you won’t need to worry about getting any unexpected bill when it arrives in your country.

 

But there will more than likely be a VAT charge, depending on how they ship it. 

Edited by Planter
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47 minutes ago, M_H_S said:

I'm not sure about not having a clue. Your constructive thoughts are the kind I was looking for as at the end of the day we are all lay enthusiasts making educated guesses.

Yes like I was thinking alignment is irrelevant to wider distribution while single dosing. But interesting that I didn't consider that the tilt allows for better exit and thus similar amount of beans being ground at any one time. Its also interesting that the tilt means that it is mostly the lower part of the burr chamber is where most grinding is taking place.

Has anyone read what the tilt should be in angles or it is not that relevant? Just from looking they all seem to be around 30 degrees or so.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

I think professor 😂@Hasi is right .. If you don’t clean the grinder out often enough there is a definite effect on the grinds .. So any restriction would have the same effect . 

Looking at the pictures as I haven’t got one ie  the Monolith and Eg-1 I’d guess the angle some where 30-45 degrees . 

Im no scientist , but centrifuge force will throw the beans around the whole circumference of the burrs which would continue throughout the grind . There must be an optimum speed with the flat grinders to keep that happening before gravity plays a part .

Im interested in this as Firstly I was considering how to make one of Eureka 64mm flat a single doser ( after getting an hg-1) to get a constant weight until the beans get to the burrs  It has a tall auger in the way . I am also looking seriously at an EG-1 😂

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Re where grinding happens: when there's an impulse (200+ RPM), G-force and inertia combined will always win over gravity.

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6 minutes ago, Hasi said:

Re where grinding happens: when there's an impulse (200+ RPM), G-force and inertia combined will always win over gravity.

Thank prof 👍😂😂

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You need the tilt to use flat burrs at low speed, I've heard / read somewhere that the lowest you need for flats is around 500RPM.

 

T.

 

 


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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