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Alan Kilroy

What happens if I go too fine?

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Playing with my two day old Appartamento.

It's slick.

Espresso, Long black, Cappuccino etc etc. all working out it appears.

Not a huge fan of espresso but about 50% of my drinks are espresso (that doesn't make sense 😶).......how do I know if I'm grinding too fine?

Bar the obvious, I assume, that the water will not flow through......I was looking at some guy on tinterweb showing how he can rest some sugar on the crema before it slowly sinks into the drink.

I'm trying to aspire to that but....... no go. I get a good crema but not that dense. Should I be bothered trying to reach this level?

Cheers.


Rocket Appartamento, Compak K3 Touch. Kalita Wave SS when on the move.

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Playing with my two day old Appartamento.

It's slick.

Espresso, Long black, Cappuccino etc etc. all working out it appears.

Not a huge fan of espresso but about 50% of my drinks are espresso (that doesn't make sense ).......how do I know if I'm grinding too fine?

Bar the obvious, I assume, that the water will not flow through......I was looking at some guy on tinterweb showing how he can rest some sugar on the crema before it slowly sinks into the drink.

I'm trying to aspire to that but....... no go. I get a good crema but not that dense. Should I be bothered trying to reach this level?

Cheers.

 

That sugar thing is absolute nonsense, every bean will give you a different amount and thickness of crema, time your shots and weigh output using the guidance on this site, loosely if it’s too fine it will take too long to come out and over extract and if too coarse it will come through to quick and under extract

 

 

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Then again........I don't buy a specific espresso bean/roast.

Which would help I assume?


Rocket Appartamento, Compak K3 Touch. Kalita Wave SS when on the move.

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You should always buy freshly roasted coffee, there are loads of good suppliers online like coffeecompass, rave, hasbean etc, it’s always good to try new beans so sticking to specific one before you’ve tried quite a few would mean you’ll potentially miss out. Once you have freshly roasted coffee you need to read up on dialling in your grinder, there are a few variables to read up on but a double espresso should take around 30 seconds

 

 

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I know I am a tad cynical about lots of the pseudo-science (smoke and moonshine) surrounding coffee (and tbf lots of things)....

But resting some sugar on the crema!!! Really..... as a mark/demonstration of.... well I have no idea what...

You could probably rest some sugar on the head of a pint of stout... but it would just ruin the pint (some might argue that it would have the same affect on coffee)
 

 

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11 minutes ago, KTD said:

You should always buy freshly roasted coffee, there are loads of good suppliers online like coffeecompass, rave, hasbean etc, it’s always good to try new beans so sticking to specific one before you’ve tried quite a few would mean you’ll potentially miss out. Once you have freshly roasted coffee you need to read up on dialling in your grinder, there are a few variables to read up on but a double espresso should take around 30 seconds

 

 

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Yeah......I'm good for new beans, have a good sub. Do my weighing, timing etc.

😉


Rocket Appartamento, Compak K3 Touch. Kalita Wave SS when on the move.

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Yeah......I'm good for new beans, have a good sub. Do my weighing, timing etc.



If you understand dose and output weights and timings not really sure how you need the question answering


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Posted (edited)

My query is about "how fine can you grind" without "going over the edge"?

For example, with my Gaggia Classic, if I went too fine the machine would let you know with the portafilter uncoupling.

This doesn't seem to happen with my Appartamento.....but I don't want to push it.

Just getting used to a new machine......just asking a few questions.

Edited by Alan Kilroy

Rocket Appartamento, Compak K3 Touch. Kalita Wave SS when on the move.

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You can grind as fine as you like but you won’t get the desired output in the desired time, personally I prefer to tamp fairly light and grind finer as I find it easier to repeat than the opposite way round.


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OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

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Rocket Appartamento, Compak K3 Touch. Kalita Wave SS when on the move.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Alan Kilroy said:

Playing with my two day old Appartamento.

It's slick.

Espresso, Long black, Cappuccino etc etc. all working out it appears.

Not a huge fan of espresso but about 50% of my drinks are espresso (that doesn't make sense 😶).......how do I know if I'm grinding too fine?

Bar the obvious, I assume, that the water will not flow through......I was looking at some guy on tinterweb showing how he can rest some sugar on the crema before it slowly sinks into the drink.

I'm trying to aspire to that but....... no go. I get a good crema but not that dense. Should I be bothered trying to reach this level?

Cheers.

Quick answer you yihe last question, no. 

 

If you grind  too fine, no coffee will come out and it it will taste bad 

Alot of the visual clues people use to proport to be important  such as crema holding sugar are just noise..crema is not a indicator or a great shot by itself. It is dependent on a host of factord such as bean origin, roast level. 

Pull a robusta shot, crema galore, tastes awful. 

Focus on learning some process of adjusting your shot based on taste and using your measurements in brew ratio and grind to influence strenght and sweetness. 

 

This week I had a guy try to explain to me I should be stopping a shot based on how it smells 😜👌 Go figure. 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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You can go finer and get micro channeling going, which then speeds up the shot again and makes a mess.

Scoop that cream and taste it. Does it taste awful? Yeah... it kind of should...

Visuals are great to spot something off happening, but don’t let yourself get distracted by pseudo science. You have taste buds to drive your recipe.

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