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lee1980

Hard done by in work

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Over the past year or so had a few issues in work, and last week had a verbal warning.  I work in construction drawing buildings for structural steel and concrete generally large buildings and we use like 3D software now to model in 3D.

They are saying my performance one project is to slow and comparing me to others etc when it is quite hard to quantify and explain a lot of factors affect speed in drawing production.

I have a laptop to and over past year put in a lot of evening hours and late nights to meet deadlines to.

my line manager and tech director called me in for this chat, saying im not fulfilling my role fully etc and not fast enough.  Seemed a bit harsh given others on my team doing same job do no extra ever.

This was said to me after working previous day 7:00am go home at 6pm and work until midnight!


Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

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Posted (edited)

I'm not going to say how unjust this is as I'm not there and only have one half of the story.

You mention previous issues.  Were these valid issues ?

If there are factors impacting on your performance, make notes of all of these by way of justification, should the matter be taken further.

What was the outcome of the verbal warning ?  Were there targets to be met ?  Was the warning justified ? Did they take into account your reasons for the performance ?

I was never a fan of people taking work home with them or needing overtime to complete the work.  It means their workload is too high or they are not working effectively.

Disciplinary process can be effective if the motives for applying it are positive.  Ive had people improve and  one who shook my hand and thanked me for the support as they were dismissed  (the week before Christmas).   Ive been on the other side, as witness for a disciplinary that was overturned as the issue could not be used for performance (disability discrimination act stuff).  It should be applied fairly and both sides should be considered but in the real world, those disciplining will start off as favourite.

If the workload is too high and you are being unjustly reprimanded, maybe its time to look for another job.  In my experience you will never change the ethics of a company.

 

 

Edited by working dog

a grinder a lever and some beans

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I'm largely in agreement with working dog, and I only know one side of the situation.

However, it doesnt sound like a pleasant situation to be in, and realistically it's unlikely to improve.

My advice would be to find another job.


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Any decent employer should e having a meeting ( this at first should be ideally informal ) to discuss any performance concerns they have with you. Here they can bench mark you against other measures but at the same time, should be asking you , how you think you are doing, what support you need and your opinion and then coming up with a plan to go forward.

A verbal warning should come after this ideally. 

Any of these meetings should have notes , ideally signed by both of you. If you are concerned about your future then ask then what is their HR process and guidelines for managing performance and capability and can you have a copy ( bet they dint have one ) . Meeting where disciplinary is taking place , I would expect a fair employer to ask if you want to be accompanied by a note taker etc. 

 


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6 hours ago, lee1980 said:

Over the past year or so had a few issues in work, and last week had a verbal warning.

I have a laptop to and over past year put in a lot of evening hours and late nights to meet deadlines to.

my line manager and tech director called me in for this chat, saying im not fulfilling my role fully etc and not fast enough.  Seemed a bit harsh given others on my team doing same job do no extra ever.

This was said to me after working previous day 7:00am go home at 6pm and work until midnight!

  • Never work long extra hours, it becomes an expected thing and you make a rod for your own back...they will simply give you more and more work
  • If you can't do the job "they" want in the time allotted in a normal working day, either you are not right for the job or the job is not right for you

You cannot and should not try to turn the situation around, forget what the barrack room lawyers might say here or at work. The end result is usually that you lose and if you win, you often still lose (because any tribunal always results in termination)...think about it.

You should immediately start looking for another job and next time never make the mistake of taking work home and working unpaid hours. The only exception is where you are asked to do so and you get paid for it, whilst making it clear you are doing your employer a favour. I have significant experience of situations like this, having headed divisions (in a blue chip company) with significant numbers of people and involvement in many cases similar to yours.

Staying will simply make you unhappy and won't be good for your mental well being....I mean you are actually posting about this on a coffee forum, that's not right. Get out as quick as you can and get out clean, then don't look back.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
  • Never work long extra hours, it becomes an expected thing and you make a rod for your own back...they will simply give you more and more work
  • If you can't do the job "they" want in the time allotted in a normal working day, either you are not right for the job or the job is not right for you

You cannot and should not try to turn the situation around, forget what the barrack room lawyers might say here or at work. The end result is usually that you lose and if you win, you often still lose (because any tribunal always results in termination)...think about it.

You should immediately start looking for another job and next time never make the mistake of taking work home and working unpaid hours. The only exception is where you are asked to do so and you get paid for it, whilst making it clear you are doing your employer a favour. I have significant experience of situations like this, having headed divisions (in a blue chip company) with significant numbers of people and involvement in many cases similar to yours.

Staying will simply make you unhappy and won't be good for your mental well being....I mean you are actually posting about this on a coffee forum, that's not right. Get out as quick as you can and get out clean, then don't look back.

 

 

Companies should have a process for addressing performance , simply walking away from one and not asking means they get away with incorrect procedures until someone challenges them in it. 

I am not a lawyer but have a fair bit of experience in doing reviews, disciplinaries etc so have always had advice re employment law on how to do these , in case i break the law or treat someone unfairly . 

Up to the OP to decide if he wants to stay or go or the hassle or trying to work through this  but so many companies do not have a clue of what they can legally proceed with until they are challenged. 

 

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Thank you all, I understand its a bit hard to be able to tell all the in's and out's of this, and I was caught on the hop by it and am never very good at explaining my self in these situations either.  I posted on here as there are some pretty level headed knowledgeable peeps.

I have only really other wise discussed with the wife.

Previous issue was same thing really on a large project them suggesting I was taking to long to draw up an coordinate, this time around I have been very clear on letting them know when I am struggling to meet dead lines etc. 

Outcome was to be overseen by higher up technician and to meet a couple of points in regards to planning work ahead and looking what is required in a more efficient manner and helping out the engineers more.  I did pretty much say to them well not much point in doing extra hours then is there if they are still not happy!

I do wonder if I take it to heart to much, as since chatting its like nothing has happened and all pally like.  I get possible feeling it was done as a way of them venting issues on it as fee is spent on job etc and was also low to start off with.  I think I need to ask though if the this warning is on record etc and if it will affect my future there.


Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

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If the company realises that you are working extra hours and still give you a warning (official or otherwise) then you need to seriously consider your future there.

If the job was costed badly / cheap (I think that's what you are saying) - when did this become your issue ?  Its the issue of people above you.

Ive done it.  Sent Mrs WD and her friend on holiday so that we could bring in a new service smoothly, worked weekends and evenings with no payment.  Got sucked into the 'our people are our biggest asset' rhetoric.  Sad to say but when working for most companies you are a commodity.

Hindsight is great but I should've made more changes when I was unhappy in my work.  So glad that I made the jump and now have a far better work / life balance working for our own business.  I guess what I'm saying is if you get up in the morning and are not looking forward to the day ahead, consider if the job is for you.

Good luck with whatever you decide 

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a grinder a lever and some beans

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Yea I a sure am but as ever lots to consider as long term got good benefits etc.

Yeah that is right fee was estimated to low and not realised the complexity of the building.

Thanks yeah I will be having a serious think over all this depending on how things go over next 6 months.

As been pointed out I am going to ask what has been done inline with HR procedure or if it is just a chat between us like.

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Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

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You need to know what the 'next steps' are - will they review the situation in a few weeks/months? if so, what criteria will they use, and what criteria have they used this time round? If they're looking for a comparison in order to make a decision then they need a baseline to measure performance from as well. Like a few have already said, it's not clear cut!

I had my probationary period extended when I first started where I am now, back in 2013 - nothing to do with performance, it was because i'd had 4x individual days off sick in the first 6 months and my management simply didn't like it because it was above average for the rest of the organisation, which was quite an authoritarian and objective way of making a decision (rather than performance in-role etc). 6 years later and probably in my 4th or 5th role since then, I laugh looking back at how archaic a couple of 'managers' in that team were and glad that those days, and managers are long gone. 

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