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Persuade me not to buy a Londinium R

6K views 73 replies 24 participants last post by  Jony 
#1 ·
Hello!

I used to frequent these grounds, but dropped off of heavy interest after years of not having my machine available. I've been running my old brewtus ii (2006 model) for the last couple of years and done a few repairs/servicing. However, I've not been that good to it and it's finally giving up the ghost.

It's time for a new machine, and for years I have dreamt of the Londinium I, then R. Since I'm thrust into a position of needing to do something soon, but have been out of the loop for some time, I'm being a bit lazy and asking if this is still a solid move many years on. I'm attracted to the Londinium for the simplicity - I don't want all the electronic gadgets (replaced the temperature controller on mine twice because it melted essentially). I only have a Vario grinder and I know that won't do the Londinium justice, but that upgrade will come later.

I'm looking for a machine that will last a good lifespan, be easy to maintain etc. I'm not all that experimental anymore, just order good coffee and enjoy. I want a simple life haha. I've had a quick look at the market and recent forum posts and can't see anything that would away me from Londinium, but I know people here will have had lots of discussion over new machines and experience. Since I very rarely allow myself to be so extravagant as to drop 2.5k on a new toy, I'd ask, are there any compelling arguments that this is not a good use of the money? Downsides I'm aware of include having to buy Volvic or Ashbeck (Ealing water is super hard).

Thanks for any advice!

Tom
 
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#6 ·
A couple of further thoughts.....

The toggle switches are smoother on the newer machines imo.

The factory fitted PID and soon-to-be released App for control of this is a bonus.

Heat up time can be annoying if you arrive home mid afternoon and fancy a quick coffee. To solve this all you need is to have a La Pav alongside ?
 
#7 ·
I've been considering an L-R for some time myself and was pretty much on the verge of getting one, when a realisation hit home - more on that in a moment.

The L-R appears to be a well supported quality product that has so many things going for it. The support pages on the company website together with friendly user advice from this forum speak volumes for how well this machine is thought of in the home coffee making environment. I've found a wealth of information on the L Support pages and Reiss keeps on top of queries as they come in. He seems to have a lot of patience, believe me, I know, as I've asked some stupid questions all in the name of research. Owners genuinely seem bowled over by its performance and it's simplicity is a feature that really appeals to me.

Like you, I haven't changed my machine in over 10 years - but mine is still going strong. The thought of a new challenge and a final forever machine excites me, BUT the only thing that's holding me back from buying one is it's power consumption credentials. The boiler isn't lagged and to heat up the heavy group takes about an hour. Reiss recommends a timer switch so that it's warm by the time you get up. It seems a lot of energy use to knock out two doubles in the morning. The machine is rated at 2.4 kW. Don't get me wrong, I may still go for one, but Im trying to reconcile this issue with an eye to my impact on the environment and my coffee consumption habit.? It all boils down to choice in the end and what factors are important to you.

As you could be potentially buying directly from Londinium, the opportunity to see one in the flesh is a little limited, but understand Reiss is happy to Skype / FaceTime with a view to going through the machine with you - what a service!

I believe there is an App that is due to be released shortly that enables you to alter the pre-infusion parameters, another bonus particularly if you like to experiment with your roast levels on your coffee.

As mentioned in an earlier post within this thread, the expense will not stop at the machine - a quality grinder is also needed to get the best from the L-R. Reiss seems to favour the Monolith - good luck with trying to get one. Like the L-R, I guess they could be classed as a considered purchase.

Good luck with your deliberations.
 
#10 ·
Reiss recommends a timer switch so that it's warm by the time you get up. It seems a lot of energy use to knock out two doubles in the morning. The machine is rated at 2.4 kW. Don't get me wrong, I may still go for one, but Im trying to reconcile this issue with an eye to my impact on the environment and my coffee consumption habit.[emoji848]
The heat element is not constantly on once it reaches the temperature. I take these measurements from the smart switch with a pinch of salt, but here you are...
It's turned on daily for 2 hours with an exception of 3 days where it's on from early morning to late afternoon when I'm at home.
bb77248d3dedeb3da8ccfb863cffc45c.jpg


It's surely more than a kettle for brewed coffee, but it's not crazy amount. My bill was bumped by few pounds now, but I also got an electric clothes drier plus few other things.
 
#8 ·
There is one for sale in the for sale section at the moment however I would consider it somewhat overpriced based on it seeming to lack the digital pre-infusion (£300 to add) and being around 2 years old. You might be able to haggle a bit though.

Not going to lie, if I had the money spare I would have one of these. I love the look of them and I haven't heard many bad things said about them.
 
#9 ·
mctrials23 said:
There is one for sale in the for sale section at the moment however I would consider it somewhat overpriced based on it seeming to lack the digital pre-infusion (£300 to add) and being around 2 years old. You might be able to haggle a bit though.

Not going to lie, if I had the money spare I would have one of these. I love the look of them and I haven't heard many bad things said about them.
It's only overpriced if you can get another one for cheaper. These machines have been working fine without digital pre-infusion for years so while it may be nice to have, it certaimly isn't a necessity.
 
#11 ·
Thanks @PPapa for providing the useful information. I fully realise that the energy consumption will depend upon the time it takes for the stat to come up to temperature and cycle. This cycle rate will amongst other things depend upon the ambient temperature of the room that the group is shedding heat to.

I too use the in built power consumption app within my wifi switch for my E61 machine.

As a point of interestI've been following threads on L-R boiler lagging and also there's this older one;

https://londiniumespresso.com/news/energy-consumption-londinium-i

The link gives a real world consumption figure from Reiss for a larger 2850W element and I thought it fair to infer from it a ball park indication of potential energy consumption for the L-R. Your energy consumption figure in relation, isn't that wide of the mark...... tempting! ?
 
#13 ·
I haven't ever tried this, but keep meaning to try a folded towel over the machine and cups to help heat up time. That plus has already been said, a few flushes of the group once the boiler is up to temp would reduce waiting time. I quite often leave a coffee bar towel across my cups on top and they heat up far more than without, in fact they are usually too hot to hold while I pour the milk.

Once it is up to temp the stat to keep it up there only kicks in now and then. I'd be guessing but the red light was on for about 10 seconds just now and hadn't been on for possibly 10 minutes before that.

I suppose quite a few machines are going to seem extravagant for just a couple of cups a couple of times per day but that is a different consideration.
 
#16 ·
I'm sad to see a few of you refer my L-R as being overpriced. I priced it accordingly from what previous L-R's have sold for, and as stated in my sales thread, has over £200 worth of extras. I would like to say that offers are considered, but was unable to edit my post shortly after the post was made.

Also, if some/all of the additional accessories are not wanted then please let me know as I will be happy to sell them separately.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
There's been few LRs for cheaper that lingered for a long time, it's just timing. Holiday season, long after bonus periods, people who want a Londinium will get one and hold on for their lifetime (or so it seems), etc...

It will get sold as it's more than decent price considering extras, it's just people want a Rolex for a price of a Casio.
 
#22 ·
I'm similar in terms of wanting low maintenance, not much experimenting with different beans etc. I love my L1 (the ease of maintenacne/cleaning just isn't lauded enough in folks' reviews IMO!) and the LR doesn't appeal to me in the slightest as I know for my bean preference the enhanced pre-infusion would not likely be noticed by my taste buds. Save yourself a grand or more and get a pre-loved L1.
 
#23 ·
To save on Ashbeck/Volvic etc. Get a water filter and go plumbed in. Once you plumb a machine in you won't look back.

I thought about getting a Londinium once, but then I had to buy the Speedster to save a few marriages :classic_laugh: I also have a La pavoni so I've sort of got it covered in that respect.
 
#24 ·
Thanks for all the input guys. Must say, it doesn't sound like there is much of a compelling reason for me to not go ahead....

I have another outgoing to take care of soon, but should be able to order in a month or two! How exciting. Regards to plumbing in, I cannot do that due to location of the machine. Regards to heat up time, I always have mine on a digital timer socket anyway, so it comes on nice and early in the morning.

I hope that by the time I order, the wireless module is already installed etc :D
 
#27 ·
Thanks for all the input guys. Must say, it doesn't sound like there is much of a compelling reason for me to not go ahead....
I have another outgoing to take care of soon, but should be able to order in a month or two! How exciting. Regards to plumbing in, I cannot do that due to location of the machine. Regards to heat up time, I always have mine on a digital timer socket anyway, so it comes on nice and early in the morning.
I hope that by the time I order, the wireless module is already installed etc
:D
Where are you based. If you're near to me you can come and have a go if you want.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk
 
#28 ·
Thanks Planter! Right in London myself though :) To be honest having hobbled by with a Brewtus that has been trying to die for a long time, I'm sure a LR will blow me away anyway :D

Niche grinder is a new name on the market though and I will eventually need an upgrade to the Vario, so I might pick your brains over how that's working out for you at some point :D
 
#29 ·
Thanks Planter! Right in London myself though [emoji4] To be honest having hobbled by with a Brewtus that has been trying to die for a long time, I'm sure a LR will blow me away anyway [emoji3]
Niche grinder is a new name on the market though and I will eventually need an upgrade to the Vario, so I might pick your brains over how that's working out for you at some point [emoji3]
Not a problem at all. I think the Niche is a very good grinder at the price. It hits a good share of the market until you start looking into titan territory.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk
 
#30 ·
Perhaps I posted my first post to CFUK in the wrong category? I put it under "levers", thinking it qualified. I will repeat it here, and hope it is not an annoyance to do so.

I am new to owning an espresso machine (although I have used the Pavoni with good success). I prefer the more "Italian" style espresso, which seems increasingly difficult to find. I specifically want to avoid future machine upgrades, so my question is, do I go for a used Londinium 1 (I am considering one I saw that was advertised as a "first run Londinium 1"... what exactly does "first run" indicate?) or do I forget the used L1 I saw and instead save up to buy a new Londinium? Thank you for any insight you can provide.
 
#31 ·
Perhaps I posted my first post to CFUK in the wrong category? I put it under "levers", thinking it qualified. I will repeat it here, and hope it is not an annoyance to do so.

I am new to owning an espresso machine (although I have used the Pavoni with good success). I prefer the more "Italian" style espresso, which seems increasingly difficult to find. I specifically want to avoid future machine upgrades, so my question is, do I go for a used Londinium 1 (I am considering one I saw that was advertised as a "first run Londinium 1"... what exactly does "first run" indicate?) or do I forget the used L1 I saw and instead save up to buy a new Londinium? Thank you for any insight you can provide.
If you prefer a darker italian roast the the older L1 will do you fine, you are not going to get a huge advantage from the new Londiniums with the adjustable pre infusion .
 
#33 ·
Medium-dark camp is considered dark round these folks ?

Maybe someone who has had both and used a variety of grinders and beans can give you more insight, but based on what I was told when I asked the same question, it comes down whether you prefer medium or darker(L1 is perfectly fine) or if you like light to medium then the LR is the better option. myself and systemic kid tested out the L1 against the LR with a Niche and 2 different light roasted beans and they were pretty close!

You would need to tell everyone which grinder you currently have?

Have a read through the thread I posted up.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/45082-londinium-1-vs-r/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=651320&embedComment=651320&embedDo=findComment#comment-651320
 
#35 ·
myself and systemic kid tested out the L1 against the LR with a Niche and 2 different light roasted beans and they were pretty close!
Those were the results. Not exactly scientific but we just went off taste.

You will definitely need a better grinder. So unless you've already budgeted for that seperately then you should definitely do so.
 
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