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AlanB1976

Sage Touch, Dual Boiler and Barista Pro the same cost - which is right for me

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What makes the Sage Dual Boiler so highly rated over the other models (besides the fact that you can brew and steam at the same time)? 

Considering the heat up times of the new Pro/Touch, would it still be better than them, specially considering it doesn't come with a grinder (I know it's not great but doable while saving up is going on)?

At the moment I'm leaning towards the touch due to the fact the frothing can be auto or manual (so my wife can use it.... or me if I'm feeling lazy) and I can stay within my budget which would be really helpful

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Just to chip in, because I started with a £700 budget (I went a bit over).

After extensive research, I went with a £500 Niche Grinder and spent about £250 on a Gaggia Classic modded to 9bar pressure with a PID temperature mod.

The Classic is a single boiler, but it only takes about 3 minutes to get the boiler to 93 degrees, and another minute or so to get it to 150 degrees for steam.

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On 20/07/2019 at 15:43, AlanB1976 said:

What makes the Sage Dual Boiler so highly rated over the other models (besides the fact that you can brew and steam at the same time)? 

Considering the heat up times of the new Pro/Touch, would it still be better than them, specially considering it doesn't come with a grinder (I know it's not great but doable while saving up is going on)?

At the moment I'm leaning towards the touch due to the fact the frothing can be auto or manual (so my wife can use it.... or me if I'm feeling lazy) and I can stay within my budget which would be really helpful

The Sage Dual Boiler is one of the cheaper DB machines you'll find (not second hand), and has all the benefits of having a Dual Boiler - Obviously! They are easily used, but don't have an e61 group, which some people swear by. This can be seen in two lights - e61 is very temperature stable so great for pulling shots, but takes a long time to heat up. On the other hand the Sage doesn't have the e61 componentry so might not be as temperature stable, but will heat up quicker. 

The added benefit of the Dual Boiler is its ease to turn it to a frankenstein fairly easily and completely irreversible, which will allow you to profile the flow. This instantly puts it in the same category of the Lelit Bianca (and others), which has paddle flow control. This is classed as shot profiling (can profile flow or pressure - see Vesuvius/DE1+, the DB focuses on the flow). 

They are fairly well made as far as I can hear. I've explained the benefits of a DB over a single boiler before so won't bother myself sounding like a broken record!

The auto froth won't be as good as you'd expect I guess, but it will be ok for your wife's needs I guess. The manual frothing does take a while to do on the sage single boiler machines, but they can make nice microfoam (managed to get plenty of decent milk on my Barista Express). 

Obviously one thing worth noting is that if you get the DB you'd need to go through and get a grinder too... more $$$$

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Posted (edited)

Thanks.

At the moment I don't see myself turning it to a Frankenstein (love the terminology 😄) and there will only be 5% of the time where I would need to make more than 2 cups so wouldn't use the dual boiler functionality that much. Specially with the heat up and steam times of the Barista Pro and Touch (I also accept that those may not produce the most stable temperature profile but I doubt my palette wouldn't notice that to be honest).

I do worry about the steam output of the single boilers as you pointed out which is a key concern and probably the biggest reason I haven't already gone ahead and bought one of them. Oh and that I really don't like the idea of an LCD touch panel on a machine where I may get grubby fingers.

I posted some questions around the touch and hopefully if someone can answer them, I will make my decision. I know I will have regret no matter which way I go 😔. But then there is always the future upgrade to look forward to 😊 

 

Edited by AlanB1976

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I don't think this will ever end. I'm stuck in my own personal hell of indecisiveness. So, after a comment on another post about some reported temperature issues with the Touch not producing hot enough drinks, I am starting to rethink things (AGAIN). I don't think I would notice a taste difference but I hate cold coffee, so this might be an issue. This is not ruling it out (as they are just some comments at the moment and the machine might still suit me fine)

So far, my pro/con list is below. I'm not asking for anything from anyone, more just documenting my journey in case someone is in a similar boat in the future. If you do want to chip in, always welcome :) ...... on to more sleepless nights having nightmares of being brewed alive....

  Sage Barista Touch Sage Dual Boiler
Heatup + 3s heatup = 3min heatup
Heat consistency -- Some reported issues  
Simplicity (Wife factor) + LCD & auto-milk  
Switching drinks + Preset settings  
PF - 54mm + 58mm
Counter space   - extra grinder needed
Cost   - extra grinder needed
Looks   + Love the manual look
Steaming   + Dual boiler
Newbie factor + LCD helping on journey + Pressure gauge
Technology + Latest tech = Older but trusted tech

 

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3 hours ago, AlanB1976 said:

I don't think this will ever end. I'm stuck in my own personal hell of indecisiveness. So, after a comment on another post about some reported temperature issues with the Touch not producing hot enough drinks, I am starting to rethink things (AGAIN). I don't think I would notice a taste difference but I hate cold coffee, so this might be an issue. This is not ruling it out (as they are just some comments at the moment and the machine might still suit me fine)

So far, my pro/con list is below. I'm not asking for anything from anyone, more just documenting my journey in case someone is in a similar boat in the future. If you do want to chip in, always welcome :) ...... on to more sleepless nights having nightmares of being brewed alive....

  Sage Barista Touch Sage Dual Boiler
Heatup + 3s heatup = 3min heatup
Heat consistency -- Some reported issues  
Simplicity (Wife factor) + LCD & auto-milk  
Switching drinks + Preset settings  
PF - 54mm + 58mm
Counter space   - extra grinder needed
Cost   - extra grinder needed
Looks   + Love the manual look
Steaming   + Dual boiler
Newbie factor + LCD helping on journey + Pressure gauge
Technology + Latest tech = Older but trusted tech

 

You are listening to every piece of advice , no matter from someone who has had one machine only or alot of them. You will have to make your mind up. As I said previously the LCD screen will not help you make better coffee over a pressure gauge and all touches do not make cold coffee. There is never any objective heat measurement on these threads that talk of coffee being cold enough. 

If you want a auto milk frohter get the Touch if you dont get the SB. 


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I know. I'm just being indecisive cause it's a lot of money. It's not that I can't afford it. But I don't take spending many hundreds lightly (until I win the lottery) and so am looking for a perfect solution I won't find. 

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Just to help , I upgraded from the duo temp pro and the dual boiler is a vastly better machine. The niche grinder is awesome compared to the mignon grinder I had before .

i am an indecisive person, but my decision to go sage dB was a good one.

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13 minutes ago, Apatche64 said:

Just to help , I upgraded from the duo temp pro and the dual boiler is a vastly better machine. The niche grinder is awesome compared to the mignon grinder I had before .

i am an indecisive person, but my decision to go sage dB was a good one.

Just for clarity - the Sage Duo Temp Pro will have very similar internals to many of the single boiler machines he's quoting (all of them?). The Duo Temp is basically a barista express without a grinder bolted on.

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Ok, had a chat with my wife. No, not about the costs or counter space she'll be losing, don't be silly; but about if/how she will use it. She basically told me she doesn't care and that she'll drink instants if I don't make the coffee's (I think I married a neanderthal). So, a significant reason for considering the touch has been removed. 

So....... Drum roll........ I will get myself the dual boiler (provided I can still get it at that price) 

Thanks to all for helping with the decision and for bearing with me. I will post a separate thank you for those that have given up on the thread 😆

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Posted (edited)

Why don't you just save half your money and get a barista express? 

I don't think you could taste the difference between the single and dual boiler models. 

You may as well put the extra money saved on a really good grinder, unless you need the high use / dual boiler functionality. 

 

 

Edited by bp1000

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