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justinsaid

Sage Oracle - Best Bean-to-Cup option?

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Hi all,

Looks for some advice on the best bean to cup option. We currently have a Gaggia Classic and Sage Smart Grinder Pro, but this setup was purchased when I was the only coffee lover in the house. My wife has since taking a great liking for coffee and wants good quality coffee at home but has zero desire to use or learn how to use a manual machine (well she gave it an initial try but after some inconsistent results decided it wasn't for her).

 

So we are looking for a bean to cup machine that can consistently give us good quality coffee, that is as simple to use as possible. The Mrs tends to have Cappucino's/Flat Whites. The Sage Oracle looks to tick all of the boxes for us but just wondering if there are any better options out there.

Other options that have been flagged upto us are:
-De’Longhi ECAM650 PrimaDonna Elite 

-Jura S8

Any opinions on the above machines vs Sage Oracle? Also is the touch version worth the extra money (I might be wrong but just likes slightly more convenience rather than any component upgrades?)

Thanks

Justin

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Hey Justin, I had a Delonghi Magnifica, basic bean to cup and my wife doesn’t drink coffee or even made me one it was always just a little fiddly to get it right. I recently bought the Sage Oracle after drinking my friends S8 Jura for the last year. We both agree the oracle is a different level and the ease of use means my wife now secretly enjoys making perfect coffee for her friends and I really enjoy the consistency of the Extraction. As long it gets the purge and wand clean after each pour it’s all there is too it. Highly recommend it. Hope this helps.

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Oracle still for me isnt a plug and play machine , you need to manage the amount of espresso it makes from a fixed dose . 

Milk steaming is it's best function , if you are going to use medium plus roast type beans then it's more suited for this , if you want to use lighter roasted coffee and get the best from it the grinder is the weak point. 

The touch version is alot fo money for functions that for me don't write live up to the hype, just using a double button as set isnt a guarantee of tasty coffee for example.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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After some consideration I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Sage Oracle (non touch). It arrives tomorrow, il be booking the white glove service as soon as I can to run me through how to make the most of the machine.

In our excitement for this new dawn of home coffee in our lives, we have ordered some nice Inker Luna cups and a few different beans to try out:

Foundary - Rocko Mountain

Rave - Signature

Cartwheel Coffee - Mispent Youth, Yellowbrick Road, Jesus Lemus Leon Organic

Exciting times, although I'm worried about being able to 'dial in' properly! If anyone has any tips on this or general machine usage, it would be greatly appreciated...

Also, I know the standard dose is 22g, do you guys recommend reducing this slightly to sub 20g?

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31 minutes ago, justinsaid said:

After some consideration I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Sage Oracle (non touch). It arrives tomorrow, il be booking the white glove service as soon as I can to run me through how to make the most of the machine.

In our excitement for this new dawn of home coffee in our lives, we have ordered some nice Inker Luna cups and a few different beans to try out:

Foundary - Rocko Mountain

Rave - Signature

Cartwheel Coffee - Mispent Youth, Yellowbrick Road, Jesus Lemus Leon Organic

Exciting times, although I'm worried about being able to 'dial in' properly! If anyone has any tips on this or general machine usage, it would be greatly appreciated...

Also, I know the standard dose is 22g, do you guys recommend reducing this slightly to sub 20g?

Hi,  we've got an Oracle and love it. I wouldn't know how to change the dose. I'm assuming that's in the special menu?  We had the white glove service which was great although I couldn't stay for all of it. 

I'm intrigued to know what I'm not doing as regards the dose. 

The only thing we do is adjust the grind setting although it's sat at 25 for a while now. I have found to interrupt the grind in the morning to get rid of the old grinds. 

Thanks

 

John

Edited by JSR

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Don't fiddle with the dose .

Get scales aim for a minimum of 45 g out in nominal time ranges . Taste 

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I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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The Saeco Xelsis looks good in Seattle Coffe Gear's video, FWIW, but I've never used one.

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2 hours ago, -Mac said:

The Saeco Xelsis looks good in Seattle Coffe Gear's video, FWIW, but I've never used one.

The are a retail seller and I've always been a bit wary of their "reviews" tbh .

 


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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22 hours ago, Mrboots2u said:

Don't fiddle with the dose .

Get scales aim for a minimum of 45 g out in nominal time ranges . Taste 

Thanks, would you tweak the standard 30 second time or aim for 45g in 30 seconds?

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So I unleashed this machine today and had some very mixed results. I kept all the default settings and adjusted the grinder to try and get around 45g extracted. I used Alchemy Opus beans, roasted on 30th August (bought from my local coffee shop).

Started on grind size 30 and only got 30g.

Moved up to 35 and got 52g.

Moved down to 32 and got 45g.

Tried 32 again and got 50g

Moved down to 30 and got 44g

Tried again at 30 and got 51g

Moved down to 28 and got 32g

Tried 28 again and got 40g

Gave up after that, the extraction seemed to be very inconsistent and I really don't understand why.

Also, at 30 and above the extraction generally started after 7 seconds but at 28 it started at around 10 seconds.

I'm going to book the white glove service but if anyone can help in the meantime, that would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I wasn't tasting the coffee as it was 11pm!

Edited by justinsaid

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Sounds a bit inconsistent. Im not sure why! 30-32 seems to be the mark. 

I only tried it a couple of times but I got 46g on the second grind of the day from the coffee compass mystery 11 bean. I started at 27 and got 60 something. Back to 25 and 46. 

Edited by JSR

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Just a thought. Maybe the grinder needs a bit more running in or something?

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2 different results this morning;

Grind on 25 - 38g

Grind on 27 - 50g

Somewhere in the middle then 😀

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4 hours ago, JSR said:

Just a thought. Maybe the grinder needs a bit more running in or something?

Stop the shot by weight not by using the pre programmed buttons. It's not a volumetric machine that will give you precise shots .

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies.

If you are single dosing don't. 

Each time you adjust the grind it is probably chasing itself as it will have some old setting in it. 

If you are wanting to goet a brew ratio stop it manually . 

The combination grinder quality , tamping mech means you are never gonna hit the same ratio consistently and accurately using the buttons on auto -imho. 

 

 

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I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Thanks for the advice - have started the booking process for White Glove Service.

We really like the ease of use we get with this machine though, the mrs absolutely loves it

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On 15/09/2019 at 01:14, justinsaid said:

Gave up after that, the extraction seemed to be very inconsistent and I really don't understand why.

Sadly the Oracle is very inconsistent. It comes from the grinder - not from the tamper.
I have tested it with an external Sage Grinder and manual stamp tamper - same inconsistency. 

That's the reason why i am gonna buy a professional grinder and do it manually. Keep the machine nevertheless  because i love the auto milk steaming and the touch stuff. 

Edited by oracleuser

Used machine: Oracle Touch

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i suspect from using Sage grinders that you will start getting better results when the grinder has been used for over 1 week, maybe longer. If you have used the smart grinder much I would have thought you would have noticed that it's better to avoid cleaning it out unless that is absolutely necessary.

Anytime you adjust the grinder there is a need to waste several grams of grinds otherwise some will come out that are at the previous setting. If you ever have a problem with one of Sage's grinder and one of their engineers appear to fix it they will add always run it while adjusting finer. In fact the instructions that come with any grinder are likely to mention that. I'd say that a small adjustment finer will be ok on any grinder but there are limits.

As mentioned most people weigh the size of the shot that is produced and stop it manually. I don't but that is unusual on here. It does mean that the ratio will vary. My guide on that is to keep the output within 10% with a fixed 30sec shot that includes 6secs of infusion. I also work on the basis that one swallow out of that range doesn't mean that the next one will be especially after a grinder adjustment. Much past that and taste may change just as it would if some one weighed out and allowed time to vary too much. When tuning I often find that every shot that comes out is drinkable but I do know where to set the grinder to achieve that. Some settings are just better than others. IMHO this is a better option than following fictitious rules that may or may not apply to a particular machine, grinder and bean combination.

John

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I have had the Oracle for 2 years now and agree that it can be inconsistent, however with some getting used to, I think it can be (somewhat) tamed.

My recommendations for lowering inconsistency are:

How long the machine has been sat warming for makes a huge difference. If you set the your grind/tamp to make one coffee frimmediately after it gets to temperature, then that setting will likely not be right for the second coffee or indeed for a shot produced once the machine has been left for 30 minutes getting warm. I have the machine warm up for 30 minutes before my alarm to try and mitigate this. Firing hot water through the group head/portafilter also seems to help. If I am making coffee for multiple people, I find I need to tweak the grind as the machine is 'worked' as the machine warms.

Only make grinder adjustments when the grinder is grinding and as per points above, don't expect first shot produced when you have adjusted grind to be right first time, you need to work that coffee through. 

Adjustments I make to the grinder as I work through a kilo bag of beans over a month are tiny. Moving the dial from 20 to 26 (at least on my machine) is what I would expect I would need to do if I was changing bean altogether and recalibrating. Else, it is tweaking more than anything else and rarely see a change in the number shown (I can turn about 1/3rd of a turn between numbers). 

Of course your mileage may vary, and I assume every machine has its own characterisitics, but the above seems to help me a great deal.

I read with interest the theory of running the grinder for a second for your first shot (if the machine had not be used for a day) in order to push through any half-ground (stale) beans/grinds. In my head this would make a lot of sense and may also help with consistency. I will give it a try.

Cheers.

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