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Nick1881

Water for americano

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I have always drank americanos, I found espresso too strong when I first tried it years ago, but now I have found good espresso I am enjoying it, downside is that it's all over in 2-3 sips, so I do still like americano. I have been pulling a shot into my small cup, then topping it up with hot water from the machines water dispenser. However I'm reading that this is bad, stale water, it's not a kettle etc.

Should I instead run my shot a lot longer, instead of stopping around 36-40g? Will this effect taste and make it different to just adding hot water afterwards?

Or should I buy a temperature control kettle? I found this small gooseneck one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Godmorn-Electric-Gooseneck-Temperature-Stainless/dp/B07JC6TLH9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


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6 hours ago, Nick1881 said:

I have always drank americanos, I found espresso too strong when I first tried it years ago, but now I have found good espresso I am enjoying it, downside is that it's all over in 2-3 sips, so I do still like americano. I have been pulling a shot into my small cup, then topping it up with hot water from the machines water dispenser. However I'm reading that this is bad, stale water, it's not a kettle etc.

Should I instead run my shot a lot longer, instead of stopping around 36-40g? Will this effect taste and make it different to just adding hot water afterwards?

Or should I buy a temperature control kettle? I found this small gooseneck one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Godmorn-Electric-Gooseneck-Temperature-Stainless/dp/B07JC6TLH9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I may be corrected but you don't necessarily need a temp control gooseneck kettle.

The advice seems to vary, I know that @kennyboy993 drinks americano and draws straight from the water arm.

One thing I do know is that you should not just keep drawing through the puck. This will lead to not nice coffee. Adding water afterwards is definitely the solution.

 

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Hi Nick - I make americanos 95% of the time.

As img says - you shouldn’t make the drink by putting more and more water through the puck as the continued extraction would normally make a bitter and not very nice drink.

For americano I often make a 1:2.5 or 1:3 ratio espresso as the base - don’t be afraid to go over 1:2 as u have a lot more freedom when u know you’ll be adding more water anyway.

In terms of adding the extra water - a standard kettle is fine imo. The water does not need to be temperature controlled as brewing is already done and as I learnt on these forums, you cannot burn an already brewed espresso with very hot water.

I do use the hot water tap on my dual boiler espresso machine though my machine is plumbed in so don’t worry about tank refills plus I do it often enough to ensure fresh water is in there.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks guys.

To be honest I haven't experienced anything wrong with the water from the wand on the machine, no bad taste. My machine is also plumbed with a filter inline, pressure reduction and a flow meter to check the filter life. The water tastes fine and it sure is convinient, so I will just keep doing it.

It's easy to start to worry when some people are saying not to do something for certain reasons.

Regarding ratios, I'm always cautious about going to long as the flow goes blond and gets lighter and lighter, I've not ran it clear.

Edited by Nick1881

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5 minutes ago, Nick1881 said:

Thanks guys.

To be honest I haven't experienced anything wrong with the water from the wand on the machine, no bad taste. My machine is also plumbed with a filter inline, pressure reduction and a flow meter to check the filter life. The water tastes fine and it sure is convinient, so I will just keep doing it.

It's easy to start to worry when some people are saying not to do something for certain reasons.

Regarding ratios, I'm always cautious about going to long as the flow goes blond and gets lighter and lighter, I've not ran it clear.

You won't run it clear (zero tds) even if it blonds early. You need to grind a bit coarser & pours won't be so pretty, but you can get normal & tasty extractions at 70-80g out from an 18g dose. 


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3 minutes ago, MWJB said:

You won't run it clear (zero tds) even if it blonds early. You need to grind a bit coarser & pours won't be so pretty, but you can get normal & tasty extractions at 70-80g out from an 18g dose. 

I'll try some longer really fine shots with long pre-infusion and see what I get, might not need to add much water.

I'm only using small cups anyway, 180ml not full either.

It's sure not pretty after 30g+ anyway, I like the lovely tiger stripes stage.


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3 minutes ago, Nick1881 said:

I'll try some longer really fine shots with long pre-infusion and see what I get, might not need to add much water.

Really fine? If you grind too fine for a long shot, it will get bitter & silty even if it doesn't over-extract.

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I'll try some longer really fine shots with long pre-infusion and see what I get, might not need to add much water.
I'm only using small cups anyway, 180ml not full either.
It's sure not pretty after 30g+ anyway, I like the lovely tiger stripes stage.


Longer in yield Nick, not necessarily time
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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Nick1881 said:

 

Regarding ratios, I'm always cautious about going to long as the flow goes blond and gets lighter and lighter, I've not ran it clear.

I understand the attraction of using  blonding ( skill , manual , not scales , analogue, different  )  but in terms of extraction I have never found it to be a reliable way of stopping a shot from bean to bean , roast to roast, origin to origin . Coffee never really runs clear from a puck for one. If you have all power to you. If it works for you brill, its hard to trouble shoot when it goes awry though. 

It's a little unclear what the terminology is being used for here. Longer shots denties time frame , or how much coffee is going in the cup?

Playing around with fine grind and long time shots , it is possible to go too far ( Bianca, Niche set up here ) . If you are doing a fine grind and making alot of coffee then that is a recipe of potential over extraction. 

Lastly as others have said , dilution means the shot you made is weaker but still that same extraction yield . Making a bigger shot ( more weight volume etc ) by putting more water through the same puck, is a different taste ( extraction yield ) weaker potentially but with you are also changing the extraction yield ( how much coffee end up in the water ) 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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17 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

I understand the attraction of using  blonding ( skill , manual , not scales , analogue, different  )  but in terms of extraction I have never found it to be a reliable way of stopping a shot from bean to bean , roast to roast, origin to origin . Coffee never really runs clear from a puck for one. If you have all power to you. If it works for you brill, its hard to trouble shoot when it goes awry though. 

It's a little unclear what the terminology is being used for here. Longer shots denties time frame , or how much coffee is going in the cup?

Playing around with fine grind and long time shots , it is possible to go too far ( Bianca, Niche set up here ) . If you are doing a fine grind and making alot of coffee then that is a recipe of potential over extraction. 

Lastly as others have said , dilution means the shot you made is weaker but still that same extraction yield . Making a bigger shot ( more weight volume etc ) by putting more water through the same puck, is a different taste ( extraction yield ) weaker potentially but with you are also changing the extraction yield ( how much coffee end up in the water ) 

I'm also in the Niche and Bianca club, how fine do you grind? The finest I have done it 10 on the NZ, then done a long pre-infusion. I find around 14-14.5 is the standard with an E61 style pre-infusion.


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nick1881 said:

I'm also in the Niche and Bianca club, how fine do you grind? The finest I have done it 10 on the NZ, then done a long pre-infusion. I find around 14-14.5 is the standard with an E61 style pre-infusion.

How long is a piece of string ...

I dose 18g in 18 g vst . 

Generally work flow, let the pressure rise to 2bar switch off flow. Tend to let the coffee bead across the basket , can happen around 20 -30 seconds , then hit it with 8-9 bar and bring it down . Generally around a 36 to 38 g shot weight which takes around 35-30 seconds to extract 

Grind wise anywhere between 5 and 10 ish, coffee and roast dependent. 

What do you mean by standard e 61 pre infusion ? Are you not sing the padre to control flow and pressure ?

Edited by Mrboots2u

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Just pull an espresso you like and add some hot water from a kettle, innit. Not all that difficult.

I don't use the hot water tap on my machine because that water comes from a very high temp steam boiler (127°c, for high power steaming of large jugs of milk), the water that comes from it tastes hard and minerally, adding a slight powdery finish to espresso. I get around this by having a dedicated boiler running from a completely separate filter (along with my batch brewer).

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Mrboots2u said:

What do you mean by standard e 61 pre infusion ? Are you not sing the padre to control flow and pressure ?

I mean how Dave shows in this video, to kind of replicate a standard E61

 

Edited by Nick1881

Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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