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RobbieTheTruth

Iberital MC2 vs Sage Smart Grinder Pro

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Neither.....

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ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Neither.....
And to expand on that...you deserve a grinder that can grind fine enough and with enough consistency to get repeatable results with ALL roast profiles.

Both these grinders can do 'ok' but try running a decaf through and that would highlight the challenges.

Lots of stuff to search related to this on the forum already.

If you can expand budget then clearly the Niche should be at the front of the race or perhaps if you don't mind hand grinding a Kinu M47.

Failing that a second hand Mazzer commercial style flat grinder such as the Jolly would be fine.

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32 minutes ago, DavecUK said:

Neither.....

or both .....


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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19 minutes ago, mcrmfc said:

And to expand on that...you deserve a grinder that can grind fine enough and with enough consistency to get repeatable results with ALL roast profiles.

Both these grinders can do 'ok' but try running a decaf through and that would highlight the challenges.

Lots of stuff to search related to this on the forum already.

If you can expand budget then clearly the Niche should be at the front of the race or perhaps if you don't mind hand grinding a Kinu M47.

Failing that a second hand Mazzer commercial style flat grinder such as the Jolly would be fine.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I can't push the budget to the Niche unfortunately.

The grinder will be purely for the Gaggia so won't need to adjust to filter grind.  Always light to medium roasts.

I'm not going to go for a hand grinder (although I appreciate they get better results at my budget level).

May go for a Mazzer Jolly but I'm worried I won't be able to use it properly.  I've never actually used a grinder before or pulled an espresso shot!

 

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17 minutes ago, RobbieTheTruth said:

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I can't push the budget to the Niche unfortunately.

The grinder will be purely for the Gaggia so won't need to adjust to filter grind.  Always light to medium roasts.

I'm not going to go for a hand grinder (although I appreciate they get better results at my budget level).

May go for a Mazzer Jolly but I'm worried I won't be able to use it properly.  I've never actually used a grinder before or pulled an espresso shot!

 

The MC2 is a pig to use, large adjustments needed on the dial. It's noisy 

There is no reasons why a Mazzer is any harder to use than a Sage etc. They are work the same way. Put coffee in, adjust finer or coarser .

You need scales to weigh your dose to 0.1g and scales to weight your coffee out to 1g . This will help you get to some tasty coffee.

 


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1 minute ago, Mrboots2u said:

The MC2 is a pig to use, large adjustments needed on the dial. It's noisy 

There is no reasons why a Mazzer is any harder to use than a Sage etc. They are work the same way. Put coffee in, adjust finer or coarser .

You need scales to weigh your dose to 0.1g and scales to weight your coffee out to 1g . This will help you get to some tasty coffee.

 

Thanks!

Is there a way to put the portafilter (?) directly under the grinder and release a perfectly measured dose straight into it?

I think I've seen that feature on the Sage?  Does the Super Jolly have it too?

In your experience, how does the Eureka Mignon Silenzio compare with the Mazzer?

 

Appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

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I used to own an MC2 and it's not a great grinder and it's seriously noisy … but … if you were to buy one second hand from the forum it would cost around £60. You could use it to learn the basics and once they're learnt it's the same skill but better results with commercial grinders really, just slight differences in the way they go about it.

It's an absolute ball ache to dial in from new, but if you buy from someone who  uses it for espresso, you're already in the ballpark and with experience you can tell exactly how much you need to adjust the grind with a new/aging bean to get the correct extraction. I'd then save for a new Niche and use the MC2 to learn on. The good part is when you come to sell it on, you'll probably only lose the posting costs so it's basically a free loan.

As for perfectly measured doses, there's various machines that claim that in one form or another, but the cheap ones ( I'm thinking Baratza weighing Sette ) don't have a reputation for being reliable, especially not the older generation ones available second hand.

I wouldn't worry too much about the potafilter holder either. I own a Niche and after a bit of getting used to the cup, I actually preferred it. If this bothers you, rule out the MC2 as the holder is just a guide and you'll still need to physically hold the portafilter in place whilst it does it's thing. Avoid the dosered grinders that click a few grams at a time into your potafilter, they're for commercial applications only and you'll just end up with stale coffee everytime as your ground coffee will be in the grinder waiting to be used for too long.

Other than that I'd also rule out the MC2 if noise is a big concern. It really is quite loud and when I had it we lived in a house were it was underneath my chilrens bedrooms and it never woke them up at all, but I couldn't guarantee that would definitely be the case for you. 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, RobbieTheTruth said:

Thanks!

Is there a way to put the portafilter (?) directly under the grinder and release a perfectly measured dose straight into it?

I think I've seen that feature on the Sage?  Does the Super Jolly have it too?

In your experience, how does the Eureka Mignon Silenzio compare with the Mazzer?

 

Appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

Not really. Most commercial grinders run at 0.2-0.3 variance , run with a full hopper of beans. 

The Sage has that feature , it will not be a perfect dose in terms of the same weight each time 

Super Jolly doesnt have this feature. 

the Mignon will have a variance of somewhere between 0.3-0.6 g i think ( which is alot in a dose ) 

this is why people weigh their beans and or dose 

Silenzio no idea, not used one, they are small burred grinder designed for the kitchen . I am no a fan of the adjustment mech on the Eureka grinders but plenty use them without too much fuss.

If i were a betting man I suspect the Super Jolly may give you a better cup profile but will be bit more effort to get there ( single dose etc ) 

The desire to have a simple push grinder push button et up for espresso is admirable and to not weigh in and out etc but good espresso takes a little time and care to make, especially if you re going to ne using lighter style roasts. 

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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32 minutes ago, Mrboots2u said:

Not really. Most commercial grinders run at 0.2-0.3 variance , run with a full hopper of beans. 

The Sage has that feature , it will not be a perfect dose in terms of the same weight each time 

Super Jolly doesnt have this feature. 

the Mignon will have a variance of somewhere between 0.3-0.6 g i think ( which is alot in a dose ) 

this is why people weigh their beans and or dose 

Silenzio no idea, not used one, they are small burred grinder designed for the kitchen . I am no a fan of the adjustment mech on the Eureka grinders but plenty use them without too much fuss.

If i were a betting man I suspect the Super Jolly may give you a better cup profile but will be bit more effort to get there ( single dose etc ) 

The desire to have a simple push grinder push button et up for espresso is admirable and to not weigh in and out etc but good espresso takes a little time and care to make, especially if you re going to ne using lighter style roasts. 

Thanks MrBoots.

I'm only really planning to replace my Nespresso and part of me is wondering if my tastes are refined enough to know the difference at this stage.

Basically, I think Starbucks/Costa/Nero etc taste terrible, and the lightest Nespresso is paletable with  milk and sugar.

I really enjoy an espresso or latte without sugar from an independent who uses a light roast.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, RobbieTheTruth said:

Thanks MrBoots.

I'm only really planning to replace my Nespresso and part of me is wondering if my tastes are refined enough to know the difference at this stage.

Basically, I think Starbucks/Costa/Nero etc taste terrible, and the lightest Nespresso is paletable with  milk and sugar.

I really enjoy an espresso or latte without sugar from an independent who uses a light roast.

Then there is no reason why you shouldn't enjoy a good espresso made at home.

If weighing etc sounds like it's too much of a balls ache then perhaps espresso aint for you.

In reality the process I am outlining , once up and running becomes second nature and is easy to do and can make tasty espresso .

Making coffee isnt really about inate skill or it's about under standing the ingredients and process to do it. Sounds harder on paper than it is but it is worth it, if only to cut down in the star and milk intake. 

By all means get a Eureka just weigh your dose using it to be accurate . 

this is the principe for how most good espresso is made ( shops may use machines that stop weight or volume accurately ) 

 

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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2 hours ago, Mrboots2u said:

Then there is no reason why you shouldn't enjoy a good espresso made at home.

If weighing etc sounds like it's too much of a balls ache then perhaps espresso aint for you.

In reality the process I am outlining , once up and running becomes second nature and is easy to do and can make tasty espresso .

Making coffee isnt really about inate skill or it's about under standing the ingredients and process to do it. Sounds harder on paper than it is but it is worth it, if only to cut down in the star and milk intake. 

By all means get a Eureka just weigh your dose using it to be accurate . 

this is the principe for how most good espresso is made ( shops may use machines that stop weight or volume accurately ) 

 

Very interesting, and the pics are helpful!  I didn't even know you measured your espresso in the cup by weight!

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, RobbieTheTruth said:

Very interesting, and the pics are helpful!  I didn't even know you measured your espresso in the cup by weight!

Some of us would use the LHC if we thought it would tell us how to improve our coffee...and some of us wouldn't. Weighing is helpful though even if it seems a bit anal at the start. You always start with a known amount of coffee and a known output (ratio). 2 data points which you can share and change (incrementally) in a way that is repeatable.

That way rather than saying "my espresso don't taste good....how can I improve it"....because that gets the response:

BetterCooperativeBonobo-small.gif

 

However when you say "I put 20g of fresh ground Ethiopian Sidamo coffee from a local roaster in an 18g VTS basket and got 40g out in 40 seconds but it didn't taste good"....allows better feedback:

OrdinaryFailingBasilisk-size_restricted.

Edited by DavecUK
  • Like 1

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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On 08/06/2019 at 15:28, cold war kid said:

I used to own an MC2 and it's not a great grinder and it's seriously noisy … but … if you were to buy one second hand from the forum it would cost around £60. You could use it to learn the basics and once they're learnt it's the same skill but better results with commercial grinders really, just slight differences in the way they go about it.

It's an absolute ball ache to dial in from new, but if you buy from someone who  uses it for espresso, you're already in the ballpark and with experience you can tell exactly how much you need to adjust the grind with a new/aging bean to get the correct extraction. I'd then save for a new Niche and use the MC2 to learn on. The good part is when you come to sell it on, you'll probably only lose the posting costs so it's basically a free loan.

As for perfectly measured doses, there's various machines that claim that in one form or another, but the cheap ones ( I'm thinking Baratza weighing Sette ) don't have a reputation for being reliable, especially not the older generation ones available second hand.

I wouldn't worry too much about the potafilter holder either. I own a Niche and after a bit of getting used to the cup, I actually preferred it. If this bothers you, rule out the MC2 as the holder is just a guide and you'll still need to physically hold the portafilter in place whilst it does it's thing. Avoid the dosered grinders that click a few grams at a time into your potafilter, they're for commercial applications only and you'll just end up with stale coffee everytime as your ground coffee will be in the grinder waiting to be used for too long.

Other than that I'd also rule out the MC2 if noise is a big concern. It really is quite loud and when I had it we lived in a house were it was underneath my chilrens bedrooms and it never woke them up at all, but I couldn't guarantee that would definitely be the case for you. 

This is a big help, thanks.

I think I'm leaning towards the Niche.  I'll only be using it for a couple of shots at the weekend so single dose seems ideal.

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@RobbieTheTruth Just make sure whatever you do, you make good choices for where you want to take things. If you really like coffee and want to make stuff immeasurably better that what you get in the high street and believe me that's not hard to do. Then a good grinder now will be a great investment for the future, where you will no doubt upgrade your machine. You will get an immediate improvement with the Gaggia, but also have something that will stand you in good stead for any machine you might get in the future.

However, if you are going to make only a couple of shots at the weekend, then perhaps a used grinder on here, single dose it and go through the ballache of puffing/scraping whatever all the coffee out...or simply purging 5g every time you make a coffee. For a couple of shots every weekend, it won't matter. I will have had a couple of doubles by 10:30 am...and tend to drink around 6-10 doubles a day.

My personal experience is once you make better coffee, you tend to drink more, people you know who don't like coffee, taste yours and realise they never had coffee like that before!


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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1 minute ago, DavecUK said:

@RobbieTheTruth Just make sure whatever you do, you make good choices for where you want to take things. If you really like coffee and want to make stuff immeasurably better that what you get in the high street and believe me that's not hard to do. Then a good grinder now will be a great investment for the future, where you will no doubt upgrade your machine. You will get an immediate improvement with the Gaggia, but also have something that will stand you in good stead for any machine you might get in the future.

However, if you are going to make only a couple of shots at the weekend, then perhaps a used grinder on here, single dose it and go through the ballache of puffing/scraping whatever all the coffee out...or simply purging 5g every time you make a coffee. For a couple of shots every weekend, it won't matter. I will have had a couple of doubles by 10:30 am...and tend to drink around 6-10 doubles a day.

My personal experience is once you make better coffee, you tend to drink more, people you know who don't like coffee, taste yours and realise they never had coffee like that before!

Yeah, it's good advice - and that's exactly what I want to do!  Make good coffee that is leagues above my current Nespresso.

Thinking of starting with the Niche, because from reading on here, it's easy to use and the single dose element should suit me.  I'll keep an eye out for a used grinder on here too, but I don't really want to spend £200 when I know I really wanted the £500 machine, if that makes sense.  A second hand MC2 for around £70 might be an option.

The reason I have it on weekends is that I'm too lazy to get up any earlier than I need to for work.  I get up at 8.30, jump in shower and in for 9am!  I can't see me changing that routine!  I'll try and avoid coffee after 4pm, so not planning to drink it after work.

That experience sounds like mine - once I tasted Coffee at an independent here, I realised it was very different to the offering at Starbucks/Costa etc!!

 

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Well you seem to be making a well considered decision and not rushing in :)


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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On 10/06/2019 at 12:26, DavecUK said:

Well you seem to be making a well considered decision and not rushing in :)

Cheers Dave!

I've decided to go for the Niche, and it arrived this morning!

My Gaggia should be with me end of next week.

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12 minutes ago, RobbieTheTruth said:

I've decided to go for the Niche, and it arrived this morning!

That didn't take long! :)

You've made a good choice


LR, Niche & a steady stream of beans

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2 minutes ago, Fez said:

That didn't take long! :)

You've made a good choice

Cheers.

Just bought the VST 18g basket.  Is that likely to fit the portafilter included with the Gaggia?

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Yes it will fit


LR, Niche & a steady stream of beans

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