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Hi, i am new to the forum. I recently decided to drink quality filter coffee. After studying a bit (using Coffee Forums a lot..), i concluded order of importance was : 1) coffee quality 2) grind rather than ground 3) grinder quality 4) filter coffee machine

So i bought a coffee brand that seemed universally acclaimed : Rave, i took their Signature blend to have a consensual quality coffee

I bought the Sage Smart Grinder pro and a Moccamaster

i terms of process, i rinsed the filter, grinded the amount of coffee usually recommended (60g/liter), at the setting Sage indicates (46-54, i used 46), "bloomed" the coffee before making it and finally switch the moccaster on with the right amount of (filtered) water,

Result : i find the coffee ultra watery. Water with (good) taste, but very very very weak. And if i add milk, the milk has probably more flavours than the coffee !

 

So my questions :

- is it that i am doing something completely wrong ?

- is it just that my taste buds are the worst in the world and i should just forget about filter coffee ?

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Strength is a function of coffee to water ratio.

So you could use more coffee to water.

Yes it's weaker than espresso and will taste different to a french press where silt will pass though your filter to give the perception of mouthfeel and viscosity.

What are you grinding the coffee with also.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Just to add a bit of background about me if it can help you doctor : i am french (live in London now though) and filter coffee machines are the standard in france but we just shove probably a lot of Carte Noire in the filter, put water in the machine and go. the coffe we brew is strong, dark, made with supermarket ground coffee. The difference in strength highly likely comes from that 60g/liter that is recommended by coffee specialists... i guess in France we put way more that that...?

As many people i bought a Nespresso machine and after a few years, i got bored with it and wanted to switch back to having a good jug of filter coffee that i drink 3 or 4 mugs on a saturday morning.

 

Do some coffee specialists like their filter coffee strong ? or is it just a mistake in the eye of the "pro" ?

 

ps : i have tried finer grind setting on the Sage (at 40) but that doesn't make a lot of difference

pps : could i have been wrong in interpreting the 60g/liter rule ? i just weight 60g of whole beans, grind the lot , and put water up to 1/1 on the left scale of the moccamaster...?

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Rave signature is an espresso blend, whether everyone thinks its quality or not is debatebale tbh. It would nt be my first choice but doesnt mean it shouldn't be yours.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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thanks for quick answer.

i am grinding with the Sage Smart Grinder Pro

settings for filter coffee on it is 46-54. i have tried 48 then 46 then 40

So it's just a question of putting more coffee . this is not a crime then ? :)

But it means that filter coffee drinkers their coffee really weak then ?

 

i tried another coffee , which i bough in TK maxx : Unique Coffee Roasters Premier Kona , whole beans to see if it was the coffee, but it was the same (apart from the fact that the coffee taste for the second one was bad, it just tastes burnt and the coffee beans are indeed BLACK)

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what coffee would you recommend for a filter coffee ? i understand tastes are everyone's choice and you won't be liable whether i like your choice or not :D ! but if you have a coffee to recommend i'd be happy to try it

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Nothing wrong with upping the dose (or dropping it for that matter). Beans from different origins & roasters will extract differently & with using a machine like a moccamaster (instead of manual brewing), your only choices of adjustment is dose & grind to adjust the speed it brews at. So long as the basket doesn't overflow (from too high a dose &/or too fine a grind), the world is your oyster.

I've never used a SGP so don't know how well it copes with single dosing. It may well work better with a loaded hopper. Either way you're better off weighing the ground coffee to make sure you're getting 60g (or whatever dose you settle on) out.


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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why did you do any bloom? just put it in the basket and turn on the moccamaster. you might in the first half minute stir the slurry to wet all the coffee faster but I would refrain from any additional water as that will dilute your coffee. and, go for like 65 g/l.

then, if its still weak, grind finer.


just fix it

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+1 on the above as you may be just too coarse a grind on the sage to extract what you have.

 

Ratio of 60g per litre is a good starting point and you can always whilst testing drop to 45g and 3/4L of water to save on the coffee or even 30g to 500ml.

What you haven't mentioned, unless have missed it, is what water you are using as London tap is not ideal flavour wise ( I stay in enough hotels in London areas to have stopped trying to guess how much extra coffee needs to be added). Softer water will give you access to more flavours in the coffee (huge generalisation) so you could try something like Tesco ashbeck or Waitrose essentials (Lockhills in the 2L bottles) or Volvic if you feeling flush. If you are using a "known" water may be easier to point you in the right direction.

 

Rave signature is not going to give you the same flavour profile as Carte Noir as a) roasted more to suit the bean (i.e. bring out the flavours) b) not roasted to the same level as carte noir that from memory is daaaaaaark( i.e roasted for standardisation of supply throughout the year to suit the manufacturer / bean supplies, not necessarily to bring out any beans individual flavour)

 

You can always as above increase your coffee to water ratio or even return to Carte Noir if that floats your boat, the key thing being they are your taste buds and not everyone is the same ( we many moons ago used, when all we had was a cafetiere, used to think Taylors Lava Java was the bees knees!!)

 

Try the water bit above if not already and if using a filter jug bear in mind for coffee (with London hard water) the filter may only last a couple of weeks at best before giving you hard water again.

 

You may also want to try a speciality coffee shops drip / filter offering to see if filter is just not your thing as well.

 

Hope of help and don't give up yet :)

 

John


Roasters: BB Dalian Amazon 1kg -Power contolled GeneCafe 101- 113Kg of greens - Tonino

Espresso: Londinium L2 - Gaggia G105 - Silvia v3 Mr.Shades PID'-d - Faema E92a2 (Project) - MyPressi Twist - VST baskets / Motta Europa (350/500/750ml) - Torr Ti 58.55 & Goldfinger flat 58.4 TiBlack, Pullman 51.4 - Acaia x2

Grinders: Flats: Compak R120 - NS Mythos plus Conics: Compak K10PB - Lido 3

Brewed: Behmor Brazen - Moccamaster KBGT471 - Aeropress - V60 - Cona model D - Clever - Mizudashi - 8-10 + 6 cup Chemex

Water: BWT Bestmax V Refrac: VST III

and a Puq Press not in a pear tree..

 

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Hi, after many attempts  i finally found the thread again !

thank you for your answers ! 

quick answers on your questions :

- i did the bloom because i had seen it was a step to do in order to evacuate the CO2 ? I would count the water used so no dilution. 

- i am using London tap water filtered with Brita ... i will try with bottled water !

- Yes i am pretty sure Carte Noire is quite dark and that the grinding is quite fine. 

- i will try finer but bear in mind Sage smart pro grinder settings for filter coffee is 46-54 and i have tried @ 40g .... 

I have tried to increase coffee to water ratio : instead of the 30g/0.5L feneral rule i went for 40g.. And i found it a lot better ! probably sounds too much though... 

Correction : was a lot better with the Rave Signature but was terrible with the very bad Unique "Coffee Roasters Premier Kona" bought at tk maxx. it was bad when weak and very bad when less weak !  :D

 

I won't mind having supermarket coffees now and then but the reason i bought a grinder and good machine was to taste as many different types of quality coffees i could as i think the products we have access to in supermarkets in general are probably low quality but also very similar one to another. So i will definitely not give up, on the contrary, i will buy more coffees and enjoy every test (and taste hopefully). 

 

if anyone has recommendation of their favourite beans for filter coffee, i would love to include them in my purchase list.

 

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You could take a look at some of the filter section at HasBean or others such as Rave, Coffee Compass etc just read the tasting notes and see what you like the sound of.

Ratios for brewing: you may find with bottled water you need to adjust coffee amount down from a starting point you mentioned earlier of 60g L and don't be afraid to experiment by grinding finer than what Sage are "recommending" as each coffee will be different. Ultimately let your taste buds guide you to an enjoyable cup, that half the fun of trying different coffees.

John


Roasters: BB Dalian Amazon 1kg -Power contolled GeneCafe 101- 113Kg of greens - Tonino

Espresso: Londinium L2 - Gaggia G105 - Silvia v3 Mr.Shades PID'-d - Faema E92a2 (Project) - MyPressi Twist - VST baskets / Motta Europa (350/500/750ml) - Torr Ti 58.55 & Goldfinger flat 58.4 TiBlack, Pullman 51.4 - Acaia x2

Grinders: Flats: Compak R120 - NS Mythos plus Conics: Compak K10PB - Lido 3

Brewed: Behmor Brazen - Moccamaster KBGT471 - Aeropress - V60 - Cona model D - Clever - Mizudashi - 8-10 + 6 cup Chemex

Water: BWT Bestmax V Refrac: VST III

and a Puq Press not in a pear tree..

 

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1 hour ago, frenchnes said:

Hi, after many attempts  i finally found the thread again !

thank you for your answers ! 

quick answers on your questions :

- i did the bloom because i had seen it was a step to do in order to evacuate the CO2 ? I would count the water used so no dilution. 

- i am using London tap water filtered with Brita ... i will try with bottled water !

- Yes i am pretty sure Carte Noire is quite dark and that the grinding is quite fine. 

- i will try finer but bear in mind Sage smart pro grinder settings for filter coffee is 46-54 and i have tried @ 40g .... 

I have tried to increase coffee to water ratio : instead of the 30g/0.5L feneral rule i went for 40g.. And i found it a lot better ! probably sounds too much though... 

Correction : was a lot better with the Rave Signature but was terrible with the very bad Unique "Coffee Roasters Premier Kona" bought at tk maxx. it was bad when weak and very bad when less weak !  :D

 

I won't mind having supermarket coffees now and then but the reason i bought a grinder and good machine was to taste as many different types of quality coffees i could as i think the products we have access to in supermarkets in general are probably low quality but also very similar one to another. So i will definitely not give up, on the contrary, i will buy more coffees and enjoy every test (and taste hopefully). 

 

if anyone has recommendation of their favourite beans for filter coffee, i would love to include them in my purchase list.

 

Take the sgp grind with a pinch of salt. It's just a ballpark area which doesn't take into account what beans or machine you're using. If grinding finer than they reccommend produces a tasty cup that's all that really matters.


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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You don't need to bloom when using Moccamaster, though not sure how you bloom it in first place.  55-60g/L coffee and a "medium/drip" grind size is a good start.  Also give the slurry a few stirs after it's wet. Start simple and then change only one thing at a time (likely grind size).

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