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Kruve - should I bother?

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As per the title, does it add an extra dimension or not worth the faff?


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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Don't bother


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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We had a lot of fun with ours for about a month and then sold them on. We were early on the Kickstarter so we passed them on at the same price we paid. I didn’t really use them for brewing regularly (far too much wastage) but we did get some really interesting learning out of it

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We had a lot of fun with ours for about a month and then sold them on. We were early on the Kickstarter so we passed them on at the same price we paid. I didn’t really use them for brewing regularly (far too much wastage) but we did get some really interesting learning out of it
Thank you,

 

Did you use it for espresso, filter or both? If both what did it have the greater impact on?


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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It's the sort of thing you will use occasionally. Mostly for calibrating grinds/grinders, it's the best value for money tool for this.

 

As for sifting grinds for brewing, best for immersions rather than drip, sift out the smallest grinds and use a sieve that gives you tolerable losses (10-15%?). I can't imagine how you could tangibly use it for espresso.

 

I would ignore the supplied recipe suggestions.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Thank you,

 

Did you use it for espresso, filter or both? If both what did it have the greater impact on?

 

Just filter and even then, just immersion - i.e Aeropress in our case. I think you need different sized particles (or fines at least) to help restrict the flow for espresso and pour over.

 

We did manage to make some truly incredible coffee, 27% EY as I recall with absolutely stunning sweetness and clarity. I can’t remember exactly but we were effectively using 3-4 times the amount of coffee that we would usually, which is hard to justify.

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If you only intend to use it as part of a brewing process then don’t bother. if you use it to dial in/ to understand the correlation between setting, particle distribution and extraction, to check if you manage to assemble you grinder the same way after a deep clean then by all means get one.

 

You’ll need under 400um particles in you brew, I have tried cupping it with and without 400um particles and not allot of coffee ended up as good without. In brewed it didn’t do any good, only in french press and sowden did it make since as it minimised sludge and improved clarity, however it where not because the brews where that amazing.

 

If you have a really shitty grinder it might help removing the boulders and then regrind them, however don’t do this with a electric grinder.


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

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Ideal for experimenting and learning

 

You will go through more coffee but some of the flavours will absolutely pop!


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Just filter and even then, just immersion - i.e Aeropress in our case. I think you need different sized particles (or fines at least) to help restrict the flow for espresso and pour over.

 

We did manage to make some truly incredible coffee, 27% EY as I recall with absolutely stunning sweetness and clarity. I can’t remember exactly but we were effectively using 3-4 times the amount of coffee that we would usually, which is hard to justify.

 

3-4 times the amount of coffee???

 

Sounds like an expensive coffee! (especially if you factor in Kruve costs)

 

Do you recall what filter sizes you used were?


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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Ideal for experimenting and learning

 

You will go through more coffee but some of the flavours will absolutely pop!

Thanks Glenn,

 

What filters would you recommend?


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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If you only intend to use it as part of a brewing process then don’t bother. if you use it to dial in/ to understand the correlation between setting, particle distribution and extraction, to check if you manage to assemble you grinder the same way after a deep clean then by all means get one.

 

You’ll need under 400um particles in you brew, I have tried cupping it with and without 400um particles and not allot of coffee ended up as good without. In brewed it didn’t do any good, only in french press and sowden did it make since as it minimised sludge and improved clarity, however it where not because the brews where that amazing.

 

If you have a really shitty grinder it might help removing the boulders and then regrind them, however don’t do this with a electric grinder.

Thank you,

 

My grinder shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure precisely what I'd use it for (hence this thread) I just enjoy a tinker/expanding my coffee knowledge.


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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It depends on your brewing methods

 

Smaller sizes for espresso and larger for filter

 

Get as many as you can afford and then you'll be able to experiment

 

There is a 12 sieve set which includes (μm sizes) 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000, 1100

 

Rough sizing

200 = Espresso

400 = Aeropress

600 = V60 / Siphon

1000 = Plunger


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3-4 times the amount of coffee???

 

Sounds like an expensive coffee! (especially if you factor in Kruve costs)

 

Do you recall what filter sizes you used were?

 

Haha. Yes, we were taking it to extremes I guess. I can’t remember the sizes at all I’m afraid. You can certainly just clean up any brew by removing just the fines and the largest particles but you’ll probably still be using significantly more coffee than you are used to using.

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The trouble is, in the smaller & medium sizes, you'll be lucky to catch much more than a third of your grind between 2 Kruve sieves, one twice the size of another (common intervals for their recipe series). You can catch about 65% between 800 & 1600, but the middle % reduce as you go smaller.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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The trouble is, in the smaller & medium sizes, you'll be lucky to catch much more than a third of your grind between 2 Kruve sieves, one twice the size of another (common intervals for their recipe series). You can catch about 65% between 800 & 1600, but the middle % reduce as you go smaller.

 

But why would you! I haven’t seen nor tested it to even be worthwhile

 

I believe the entire theory of a tight particle distribution to be false, for example using particles between 500-1000um.

 

For me fines are not just fines these behave very differently depending on whether or not these are free floating or cluster/clinging to larger particles. I split a dose into two one where sieved then all of it went into one cupping bowl the other where stirrer and put in another. The latter where balanced, good clarity the other lacked aromas, clarity, sweetness and has more bitterness to it, tried it several times with the exact same outcome, this tells me fines play another role when they cling to other particles, in their free form they are not very desirable, this also explains why the brews always improve if i stir the grind and remove the fines on the side of the pitcher I grind into, compared to just brewing it as these came out of the grinder.

 

For the convenience I also brewed one without fines with a narrow distribution , again the none sieved where better! I have tried a few where the results where interesting but those are a rarity to be honest.


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

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Posted (edited)
But why would you! I haven’t seen nor tested it to even be worthwhile

 

I believe the entire theory of a tight particle distribution to be false, for example using particles between 500-1000um.

 

For me fines are not just fines these behave very differently depending on whether or not these are free floating or cluster/clinging to larger particles. I split a dose into two one where sieved then all of it went into one cupping bowl the other where stirrer and put in another. The latter where balanced, good clarity the other lacked aromas, clarity, sweetness and has more bitterness to it, tried it several times with the exact same outcome, this tells me fines play another role when they cling to other particles, in their free form they are not very desirable, this also explains why the brews always improve if i stir the grind and remove the fines on the side of the pitcher I grind into, compared to just brewing it as these came out of the grinder.

 

For the convenience I also brewed one without fines with a narrow distribution , again the none sieved where better! I have tried a few where the results where interesting but those are a rarity to be honest.

 

I broadly agree with you, but I think you misunderstand me. I don't sift grinds for brewing often. For drip I may occasionally discard the largest 20%, which can be done quickly & requires no change in recipe. For immersions (especially unfiltered) I might occasionally discard just the smaller proportion for a cleaner brew. Day to day, I discard nothing.

 

All percolation brews, with any grinder have fines, they're needed to regulate flow. Drip brews without them tend to be clean but flat/dry, plus you have to futz with the recipe to lift extraction back to normal range.

 

My comment about using 2 sieves, one twice the size of the other, was in light of Foundry's observation that they might use 3-4 times the coffee to get a suitable dose. The limited capture between these sieves is why. ASTM sieves typically capture about 2/3 of the grind at these intervals, Kruve seems to work a little differently, unless you use the largest sieves (even then they don't translate directly to ASTM mesh sieves). For a medium drip grind and 400Kruve in the lower section, you will need the larger sieve to be 2.5 to 4 times larger than 400Kruve to capture 2/3 of the grind depending on your grinder (for calibration purposes).

 

I mostly, by far, use the Kruve for calibration but brew with a complete grind.

 

500-1000 isn't a tight distribution. It's a topped & tailed distribution. All grinders make particles down to micron level at any setting.

 

I think there is a lot of confusion, or certainly a lack of clarity as to whether a tight distribution does anything at all, when separated from grind distribution size. E.g. grinding finer can lift extraction. If your grinder makes wide distribution, then in order to avoid silt & clogged brews, you may need to grind coarser/will end up with an overall coarser grind anyway...at some point a very coarse grind will drop the highest tasty extraction. This doesn't mean that drinks will necessarily get less preferable, just that tasty EY may be lower & the drink a tad brighter.

 

I have made 1 mug, manual drip brews with a range of normal & low end conicals, and even a blade grinder (fitted with a mesh to limit max particle size). Over a range of origins, once dialled in, all extracted to over 18% average and I had no clear preference for any. The finer the grind, the faster you can pour/brew. That's all. Auto drip, where you are limited by fixed water delivery may be a different scenario.

 

There are some uber cheap copies of well known grinders like Hario, Rhino & Porlex, that have appeared in recent years...some of these are built with very sloppy tolerances and I'm not including these in this discussion.

Edited by MWJB

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Thought I'd add to this thread as opposed to starting another. I received the Kruve today (thank you @fluffles). There seems to be so much information out there I'm wondering where I'm best to start. Could someone advise what sieves they recommend I start with for: 1) Aeropress 2) V60


Lelit Mara PL62 / HG-1 / Eazytamp / sweetcorn skewer / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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V60 sift 10g and set the grinder so that 12-13% passes through the 400. Then grind your dose & brew with all the grinds. If you did want to exclude any part of your grind maybe use a 1100 or 1400 in the top & don't use the largest 15-20%. Always keep the smaller particles in the dose for drip, if you think you have too many fines, grind coarser or pour with less agitation.

 

Maybe aim 20-25% passing through 400 with the Aeropress as a guide to grind size. Maybe switch to a smaller lower sieve to lose just the smallest 15-20% for a cleaner brew?


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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