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deklol

Brasilia Portofino Heat Exchanger Cracked...

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...I am sure it is because:

 

- The person I bought it from stored it in a non-heated garage for years

- One group is working, but when I brew from the other group no water comes out and the boiler is filling up

- If I connect the group pipes of the faulty group to tubes and blow into one while holding the other shut - the false pressure valve is blowing out air.

 

Question 0:

What material is the boiler made of? It looks like chromed copper, however I cannot find this information anywhere on google. I cannot even find a spare one, so I guess they're discontinued...

 

So, the boiler is welded shut. The only reasonable way I can see to open it is to dremel-cut it open.

Question 1:

What makes it easier to weld/blaze/solder together, if I cut it in the old weld or make a new scar?

 

Once I've located the crack, I need to stitch it.

Question 2:

What is the best way to do this? I'm thinking of soldering this. it seems like some materials can be soldered to withstand about 30bars which should be enough. Any suggestions or recommendations?

 

Thanks guys. Here's a pic.

 

Screenshot_20190423-092913_QuickPic.jpg

 

PS. Old photo, it's descaled and cleaned now.

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  • Boiler is Nickel plated copper
  • Check the HX is definitely split (even in a non heated garage it's unlikely to have split due to frost, perhaps corroded) by isolating the group properly and making sure you only have the HX in the path and no other valves.
  • The boiler is Brazed shut, not welded, you can cut on the old brazing line, but you need someone very good at Brazing to fix it nd all the Nickel surrounding the braze area must be cleaned off.
  • People don't usually fix old HX tubes, mainly because it's very difficult to do and access them through a hole in the side.

 

I recommend you either source a spare used boiler, or put a different boiler in it of a very similar size/design.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Hey dave,

 

Thanks for confirming the material of the boiler.

 

Today I will remove the heating element and see if I can see any cracks in the HX-tubes inside the boiler. I was certain my diagnosis is correct the two groups behaving so differently.

 

Say, if the hx is not cracked, then what could be the reason for this behaviour?

I mean, boiler filling up when brewing button is pressed for only one group and not the other, and when I blow in to the functioning groups HX-pipes it's completely sealed and I can't blow, whereas when I do the same procedure with the faulty groups HX-tubes I hear whistling and bubbling from the boiler...

 

Again, thanks for the help :)

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without the schematic it's difficult to say but it's possbile there is a route back to the service boiler via a solenoid valve. It depends how they have done the 2 brew circuits. If it is cracked though you are unlikely to be able to repair it easily.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Brasilia went bust several years ago, so spares are now very difficult to find. Imho a replacement boiler will not be available in the UK.

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Screenshot_20190425-132151_QuickPic.jpg

 

 

It's dead.

 

I've screened thru the whole internet for a new boiler/hx. Can't find.. any suggestions?

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It's dead.

 

I've screened thru the whole internet for a new boiler/hx. Can't find.. any suggestions?

 

1. Either get a used boiler on a junk machine

2. Find a boiler that is roughly the right dimensions, use flexible tubing where possible and adapt it.

3. Seal up the damaged HX and use it at a single group

4. Sell it for spares on the bay.

5. The HX is brazed in, if your careful you could cut the old HX out and sleeve it and rebraze the top/bottom fittings.....but I don't think it would be worth it.

 

My two favoured options are marked in blue....with 4 being my favourite...pity the HX wasn't drained a little prior to storage.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Sell it for spares on Gumtree or EBay....

 

PS: Don't buy another Brasilia ! (re. my earlier post)

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Yup well....Anyone wanna buy anything? all of it works. Except the HX. I'm located in Sweden

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Only parts of value are the electronics: Touchpads & control PCB (also cheap to post !)

You'll need to quote the Gicar/Giemme codes labelled on these parts.

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That a new one, luckily I never came across a cracked HX, that is probably one of the most expensive parts. Also you cant get the boilers for these anymore. There are some cheap brasilia's on ebay uk. I would consider stripping it for parts for sure.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Cracked/split HX tubes tend to occur on coffee carts which have been in winter storage & exposed to icy conditions. The ice will easily crack a copper tube or brazed joint.

Ice in a flowmeter will pop the lid off & distort it. Water inlet solenoid valves are also susceptible to ice damage.

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He is from Sweden, so that explains it.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Hmm...was thinking... Instead of having it as a HX, could I "rewire" the copper tubing so that it goes through the main water area of the boiler instead? I mean rewire the pressure of the pump to pressurise the whole boiler? :D would it burst? would the safety valve go crazy?

 

I Have another Machine, Expobar Brewtus, and it seems to me that the whole boiler is pressured when I brew. Or perhaps it collects water from the boiler and then makes it go thru the pump and then the pressure is created?

 

IDK...suggestions and explainations welcome :D

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yes the pressure is added after the water is collected from the boiler... easy to see because of the two meters. But could this be done with a rotary pump too? and with my Portofino?

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The HX tubes, flowmeters, etc have their own water system which does not feed off the boiler water.

The mains inlet manifold splits the water supply into 2 feeds - one for the HX system, the other for the boiler.

The boiler pressure = steam pressure @ around 1.0bar.

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Yes, but the hx tubes are cracked. So, the boiler and the hx shares the same water. Could I rewire from boiler to group, and add a pump in between to build up pressure?

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